D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[Chaosmancer]

Just because you do not care for a change, or do not understand the reasoning behind the change, it does not mean there is "no reason" or that is it "change for change's sake". That tired old complaint is one of my pet peeves!

I mean, if you don't like that goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears are now fey instead of humanoids . . . that's cool. Personally, I love it! Whenever the game changes, there will be changes we like and changes we don't.

We have plenty of evil antagonist humanoids, changing goblins to fey brings them more in line with folklore and fantasy literature, and diversifies the cast of D&D creatures. Goblins work better as mischievous dark fey than just another group of humanoids like orcs . . . in my opinion, of course.

And like elves, there is plenty of reasons for goblins to be living both in the feywild and in the material world. Changing goblins to fey opens them up in lore and storytelling potential!

But what if this change messes with my established setting!! So? Easy fix. Keep goblins as humanoids in your campaign. Or tweak the charm person spell to work against humanoid fey under a certain hit die or CR . . . so many simple, easy fixes. And that's what D&D has been about since the 70s . . . taking the established rules and lore and making it your own!

I had actually made Bugbear into Dark Fey for my games a LONG time ago. Kept the Goblins and Hobgoblins as something else, but Bugbear are just perfect for the role. Long, spindly, bestial sneaks who can squeeze into small spaces? They are excellent fey.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Hey! I have you both the new stone golem and the new sprite. What more do you want?! Seriously though, I can post more if you want. No one really discussed the sprite so I stopped posting them.

I was catching up still.

The sprite does have an odd interaction to my mind, because the charm doesn't last very long. It only lasts til the sprite's next turn, so they can't use it to charm someone and do anything with it. It seems mostly designed to make it so the sprite cannot be effectively attacked. I might have wanted to have a little bit more, maybe a "if you have lost 5 hp to this attack, make a save vs charm for 1 hour" or some other way to extend their charms and let them play some pied piper roles.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't think it was quite so explicit. I think you are misremembering here. They said the don't have lore continuity beyond the core books for their partners. They never said the didn't have lore continuity for themselves, IIRC.

The one that always buggered me the most was blood war and the ascension of Orcus and Asmodeus over Demogorgon. Of course Tiamat's lore as been all over the place too. There are more, but I don't really hold on to specifics. Like I said, I keep what I like and discard or modify what I don't. For example, I complete rejected the blood war for years and detested planescape. However, 4e's twist to the blood war and incorporation of the dawn war gave me ideas on how to embrace it and weave it into my campaigns lore. Similarily, 5e has shined new light on planescape for me and the First World has woven into the Dawn War and reconciled Tiamat (and Bahamut) back closer to her 1e lore and my own concept of "dragon gods."

My understanding of those events was simply a fuller understanding of the planar political situation, coupled with changes due to recent events. None of that actually changed the past, just one's assumption and interpretation of it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes, I am sure your good personal friend Jeremy Crawford who you have had deep personal conversations with on this topic has admitted to you that he cries bitter tears every night because he was denied the chance to make the game he actually wanted to make. Maybe one day you'll convince him to be brave enough to tell the world this instead of just you in the privacy of your home.

Enjoying your sarcasm? I hope it's worth the squeeze to you.

 

[Chaosmancer]

OK, here are the comparisons from Scions of Elemental evil.

2014
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2024
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Very subtle changes with the Berserker and the Cultist, but changes I like quite a bit. The Berserker is actually a bit scarier now.

2014
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2024
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Well, this puts the last nail in the coffin for me. Resistance to non-magical weapon damage is completely gone. Good riddance I think, as it allows them to far more effectively match HP to the party. A lot of enemies with that resistance were half as tough as they were expected to be, which caused problems.

Also, this Fire Elemental is an interesting change on their damage. Burning does less damage now (1d4 per turn instead of the 1d10) and the elemental no longer particularly punishes fighters by hurting them multiple times. Instead, it has an aura that hits EVERYTHING around it.

I think, in the end, the Elemental's damage vs a single melee target is reduced, but their damage against a party is going to be increased.

2014
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2024
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Love that they gave a way to repair the armor and that instead of destroying the weapons that hit it, the ooze instead deals damage to you for hitting it. They are definetly reconsidering a lot of pain points that Melee martials had.

2014
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2024
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Oh ho ho, this is nice. Interestingly, they didn't bump the hp from losing the non-magical weapon resistance, but instead they gave a potential bonus action knock out, and the if the Incubus can escape (which is not diffifult with at-will etherealness and disguise self) it can prevent healing.

Dang. The more I see how this statblock synergizes the more it moves into my "I will only use this sparingly, because played to the hilt this thing is a party killer" category. Curious how the Succubus statblock would be different.

2024
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Hmm, interesting that the Ogre actually got zero changes

2014
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2024
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Oh, and the succubus block is included as well!

Okay, no real synergies with the Incubus, but losing the Ethereal abilities is fascinating. Instead, this version can through out an 8 hr concentration domination every round. Grab somoene, either draining kiss them or use them as an attack dog against their friends. Hypnotic Pattern and Shapeshift still allow them to escape easily enough, but this is a much more direct combat form than the Incubus form was, which is better suited to infiltration and assassination.

This is really cool

 

[dave2008]

I think this change is actually different. I'm thinking there are no longer going to be "bugbear" or "bullywug" entries.

That is possible, but they still have knight, cultist, sprite, blink dog, kuo-toa, etc. So maybe just humanoid monsters will not have generic options? IDK, that seems odd to me, but we will know for sure soon.

If what you suggest is true, I would think it we be the same for the Kuo-toa, but the preview suggests otherwise:

 

[Chaosmancer]

Enjoying your sarcasm? I hope it's worth the squeeze to you.

If it gets you to stop making bogus claims with no evidence to fuel your own personal grievances, then yes, it is.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That is possible, but they still have knight, cultist, sprite, blink dog, kuo-toa, etc. So maybe just humanoid monsters will not have generic options? IDK, that seems odd to me, but we will know for sure soon.

If what you suggest is true, I would think it we be the same for the Kuo-toa, but the preview suggests otherwise:

View attachment 389262

Hmm, true. Forgot that they still had these. Then again, book is not final, so they may alter that

 

[Parmandur]

I don't think it was quite so explicit. I think you are misremembering here. They said the don't have lore continuity beyond the core books for their partners. They never said the didn't have lore continuity for themselves, IIRC.

The one that always buggered me the most was blood war and the ascension of Orcus and Asmodeus over Demogorgon. Of course Tiamat's lore as been all over the place too. There are more, but I don't really hold on to specifics. Like I said, I keep what I like and discard or modify what I don't. For example, I complete rejected the blood war for years and detested planescape. However, 4e's twist to the blood war and incorporation of the dawn war gave me ideas on how to embrace it and weave it into my campaigns lore. Similarily, 5e has shined new light on planescape for me and the First World has woven into the Dawn War and reconciled Tiamat (and Bahamut) back closer to her 1e lore and my own concept of "dragon gods."

There is a nigh infinite gap between "not caring about lore" and "loving lore, but treating it as a changeable game tool".

I would say the current attitude towards lore at WotC is healthy.

 

[dave2008]

My understanding of those events was simply a fuller understanding of the planar political situation, coupled with changes due to recent events. None of that actually changed the past, just one's assumption and interpretation of it.

No it tried to change the past for me, that is why I rejected it.