D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[Echohawk]

Why do you wish they had destroyed Dark Sun?

I don't specifically wish they had destroyed Dark Sun so much as prefer that to what we got which was a Wildspace system eerily remincent of Athasspace and with lots of Dark Sun monsters but really a different place.

I think the former is a more interesting addition to the Spelljammer setting, so I would have like to have seen that in the Spelljammer adventure. Knowing that Athas is doomed at the end of its timeline (at least in Spelljammer canon) doesn't make the 2e/4e versions of Athas any less interesting or do them a disservice (in my opinion).

 

[TwoSix]

I can see that, but being sucked into a black hole didn't seem to be the most thematically appropriate ending to me (however I am not intimately familiar with the setting).

It's because of the deep lore that the Athasian sun has been damaged over time by powerful Athasian sorcery, changing from blue to yellow to its current red giant state. Having the final end state of the Athas system be a collapse of the red giant into a black hole (probably by another magical catastrophe) is a pretty appropriate end-game for the setting.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And that's exactly why they didn't call it 6e or 5 5.

Because they wanted to force their changes down the throats of those who, for one reason or another, feel they have to play the official game?

 

[Micah Sweet]

WotC ALMOST advanced a metaplot and people were up and arms and it.

Spoiler

"Athas was going to be destroyed in the Spelljammer module and one of the places you visit as it's literally in it's last days. They changed it to Doomspace at the last minute. But we almost had a canon destroyed Dark Sun. Isn't metaplot wonderful? "

First of all, while I would certainly be sad that the story of Dark Sun was over, at least it had a good run and actual closure, plus Dark Sun was never high up on my list of favorite settings anyway. I hope I'm still allowed to have favorites, and to care about some things more than others?

I liked Dark Sun, but I don't see how this is a problem from the perspective of those who see the settings as just a place to play, as there is nothing stopping anyone from playing in any campaign setting at any point of its timeline they want.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm mildly confused about why this has spoiler tags, but I hope I'm not the only person who wishes WotC had gone through with this plan. And I say that as a fan of Dark Sun!

I mean, as the setting was presented it does make sense for it to have died. It was literally created in large part as an environmental cautionary tale with a fantasy skin!

 

[Remathilis]

Because they wanted to force their changes down the throats of those who, for one reason or another, feel they have to play the official game?

This is the epitome of "First World Problems". No one is forcing you to play the game. There is no harm to life, liberty or prosperity if you aren't playing D&D. If you cannot find a group willing or able to play your preferred version of D&D, either suck it up or quit playing. You're not entitled to play D&D only the way you want to play it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

A) because it's a narratively appropriate end. It was going on about how doomed Athas was from the start. So prove it. No last minute get out of gaol free cards.

B) It leaves the path open for a new "Dark Sun" on a different world that could be more appropriate to current values (and game mechanics).

Yup. I'm always in favor of creating new settings over changing the old ones.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is the epitome of "First World Problems". No one is forcing you to play the game. There is no harm to life, liberty or prosperity if you aren't playing D&D. If you cannot find a group willing or able to play your preferred version of D&D, either suck it up or quit playing. You're not entitled to play D&D only the way you want to play it.

Not sure how anything being said here is more than a "first world problem".

 

[Remathilis]

Not sure how anything being said here is more than a "first world problem".

Because you stated it like WotC is harming you personally by putting out a new book with an updated 5e system.

"If you are a grognard and have been forced to play a version of D&D you don't like, you may be entitled to financial compensation."

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because you stated it like WotC is harming you personally by putting out a new book with an updated 5e system.

"If you are a grognard and have been forced to play a version of D&D you don't like, you may be entitled to financial compensation."

OK, that's pretty funny.

Obviously I don't like it, but I certainly don't think WotC is trying to harm my experience personally. That would be ridiculous.

Like I've said, I feel the publishing environment for 5e would be stronger if 3pp had the clear option to remain with 5e or move to 6e, rather than the pressure to make whatever changes WotC institutes in the official game in their own products. I've seen 3pp chasing that dragon to what is IMO their creative detriment, since theircre-releasing existingbproduct with changes to appease WotC supporters rather than making new product.