D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[Dire Bare]

I know this, that wasn't the thing that doesn't make sense to me. The question is how is it easier for the 3PP to make multiple versions of something versus one version of something?

@Micah Sweet seems to think a 3PP has to create 2 versions of a product one to support 2014 and 2024 5e. And it would be easier for a 3PP to support either 5e or 6e (an completely lose on fanbase). I don't see how either of those options is better than making one 5e product that works for both 2014 & 2024 5e. If you simply call your product 5e compatible - that covers 2014 and 2024, done. Simple and easy and you get the entire 5e fanbase. I can't see how splitting DnD into 5e and 6e helps the 3PP in any way.

I agree, it is an odd position to hold.

 

[Remathilis]

Some companies create products with different versions for different game systems. It's not uncommon for RPG books to have a "5E" version and an "OSR" version. Free League offers a 5E version of each title in the "One Ring" product line. I've seen "D&D" and "not-D&D" versions of other games in the past also . . .

But yeah, expecting a companies to publish "5E" and a "6E" versions as the norm . . . other than the OSR stuff, that hasn't really happened on any sort of scale ever. Nor would it currently.

What would happen is companies would end up in one of two camps.

1. Supporting the most recent version/6e
2. Stay with 5e as it dwindles until another option is picked.

Right now, 2024 is close enough to 2014 that a book made for one can be used in the other, with a little elbow grease. If they were more different or had a sharper dividing line, people who saw 6e would not buy 5e compatible products and vice versa.

 

[Remathilis]

I agree, it is an odd position to hold.

It makes sense when you are trying to claim the 5e community for 3pps and force WotC out of it. The dream scenario is that WotC goes and swanders off to do its own thing with a 6e by itself and leaves 5e to 3pps like TotV and Level Up to be the 5e standard bearers. That way all 5e conversations will omit WotC who can do no right.

 

[Imaro]

I'm mildly confused about why this has spoiler tags, but I hope I'm not the only person who wishes WotC had gone through with this plan. And I say that as a fan of Dark Sun!

As a fan of the setting you wanted the setting... destroyed??

 

[Faolyn]

I don't game in those settings, I appreciate them as stories and as game material to add to my homebrew as I see fit. So it didn't affect my play at all.

Then why complain so much about the lore? I get you read them like they're novels, but as I've said, that's not their intended purpose. You may not like VRGtR as a sequel novel, but it's meant to be used by people who are actually playing the game.

 

[Faolyn]

They are space orcs. As I understand the lore from the brief brush up I had with them, their big thing was being orcs that are intelligent.

I know. I was (failing at) being silly because it's just orcs spelled backwards, and that's all it takes for D&D to make a new monster.

I expect to see nogards and redlohebs in the next MM, possibly fighting fles and emongs.

I'd pretty much dismissed scro when they came out because even back then, all I could think was why not just use orcs?!

double checking via google
Yep, pretty much just "what if orcs were smart and disciplined, like real people."

Scro loved combat. It is foundational to their disciplined society.[2][4] Despite this, scro were in no way stupid barbarians like many considered their groundling cousins. On the contrary they were highly intelligent and surprisingly articulate.[2]

Ouch. Yeah, that's not a great look. "You talk so well for an orc."

 

[Imaro]

Because they wanted to force their changes down the throats of those who, for one reason or another, feel they have to play the official game?

Come on man... this is just nonsense just stop it.

Like I've said, I feel the publishing environment for 5e would be stronger if 3pp had the clear option to remain with 5e or move to 6e, rather than the pressure to make whatever changes WotC institutes in the official game in their own products. I've seen 3pp chasing that dragon to what is IMO their creative detriment, since theircre-releasing existingbproduct with changes to appease WotC supporters rather than making new product.

With WotC there is always going to be massive pressure to follow their changes... otherwise don't hitch your boat to theirs. No one forces anyone to be a 3pp.

 

[Faolyn]

You really think if WotC had just dropped dragonborn all over the Realms with no explanation people would have just shrugged and accepted it?

Yes.

The Realms has all sorts of weird things in it that people have accepted without question. Dragonborn are no weirder than any other humanoid in it.

If I were a Realms fan and saw that dragonborn now existed in "playable PC race" quantities, I could think of half a dozen perfectly good explanations for it, ranging from "a mad wizard did it" to "epidemic caused dragon eggs to hatch out dragonborn" to "wow, that one bard really got around." If I needed an explanation at all and couldn't just accept that hey, there are dragonborn in the Realms now. I'm sure most other GMs could come up with explanations that work for them just as easily.

 

[Faolyn]

I was suggesting that the static timeline might be the reason for the fact that Eberron fans "don't see lore in D&D the same way as fans of other settings" (as you put it), rather than simply because it was designed to be an inclusive setting (although that certainly contributes).

If a setting has a timeline that moves, then you can use that to explain changes ("there was recently an interaction with a parallel world and now there are dragonborn").

If a setting has a frozen timeline, you are forced to come up with lore that gives them a plausible place in the existing world ("dragonborn have always lived on another continent and don't get out much").

I think those two approaches (eventually) lead to bodies of lore that have different textures. Eberron is a rich setting. Dragonlance is a setting with a rich history.​

The important question is, which is more interesting (for people in general) to play in?

Personally, I always feel like a side character when playing in a setting with a rich history. I had the same problem when playing in Star Wars games.

 

[SkidAce]

As a fan of the setting you wanted the setting... destroyed??

Sure...its like having Ragnarök in the future of the setting.

You can play way before the event, using it as a foretold DOOM, or

Darksun campaign conclusion: The Black Hole is starting to shred the barrier around Dark Sun, can your players use this window of opportunity to evacuate survivors off the world before the end? Will this survivors (due to black hole time shenanigans actually be the founding races of the cosmos, i.e. Dark Sun was the Prime World?