D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[Demetrios1453]

Eve of Ruin explicitly involves time travel, as the version of Tasha/Iggwilv is not the current one, but one brought forward from the past. So, while it doesn't outright say so, time travel could be involved in the various adventures, or at least be an explanation on potentially different timelines.

 

[Imaro]

Okay.

Still think it's would be a neat idea if WotC had included a doomed Athas in the Spelljammer adventure. Shrug.

I don't need it there, I'm not upset or disappointed they didn't go that direction. I just think it's a neat idea.

I'm totally okay with you not feeling it. But I am confused over your pushback. Dark Sun is a setting with no support right now. Is that preventing fans from picking up the older material and playing anyway? How would that change if WotC had written a "canon" apocalypse for Dark Sun? It wouldn't, really. At all.

It wouldn't even prevent WotC from revisiting the classic setting if they wanted to. If WotC eventually does publish a new Dark Sun campaign book . . . and gasp changes canon . . . maybe resetting the campaign to before Kalak's death in Prism Pentad . . . could you ignore that if you wanted to in your home games? How is that different from a possible doomed future for Athas?

And you know, it's all academic anyway, as none of us here in the thread have any control over Dark Sun's future. So, you're good.

Why do you keep saying pushback... its discussion, I stated my stance and asked what the benefits are for the other. Like you said its all academic so why can't we explore different perspectives? I am genuinely interested in why an official ending written for a campaign setting (notice a general non-Dark Sun specific question, even though that's the example that was the catalyst for the question.) I would be preferred to leaving it open or creating your own ending...

 

[Echohawk]

I am genuinely interested in why an official ending written for a campaign setting (notice a general non-Dark Sun specific question, even though that's the example that was the catalyst for the question.) I would be preferred to leaving it open or creating your own ending...

Did anyone actually say that they preferred Dark Sun (or any setting) to be given a canonical ending over not being given a canonical ending? Haven't we simply been saying that we think it would have been a cool idea to have Athas's sun eventually turn into a black hole? I don't think the latter implies the former. (It doesn't for me.)

 

[Dire Bare]

Why do you keep saying pushback... its discussion, I stated my stance and asked what the benefits are for the other. Like you said its all academic so why can't we explore different perspectives? I am genuinely interested in why an official ending written for a campaign setting (notice a general non-Dark Sun specific question, even though that's the example that was the catalyst for the question.) I would be preferred to leaving it open or creating your own ending...

I'm sorry, but this really reads as pushback to me.

Why? Because it's a neat idea. That's the beginning and end of it for me. Why do you need more than that? I've got nothing more for ya, I just think it's neat and would've dug it had WotC gone ahead with the idea.

If WotC does decide to blow up the Dark Sun campaign (or suck it into a black hole), this doesn't close off the setting. Not for your table, not for the DM's Guild, not for future official books.

It's just a neat idea, man. That's it!

 

[Hussar]

The issue isn't "eventually", its that it is now. There isn't a lot of continuity amongst settings, but Eye of Ruin seems to be set in the settings as they are now in the current books, all at the same time. So I would assume most of the settings would be happening simultaneously. So that would place Dark Sun as dead relative to all other settings as they are now. Probably not a good way to sell Dark Sun.

I assume the thought was to end DS and never speak of it again. Between then and DMG 24, they changed their mind. So I suspect that a more alive version closer to 4e's Dark Sun will be what we see in the future.

Dragonlance says hi

 

[Imaro]

Did anyone actually say that they preferred Dark Sun (or any setting) to be given a canonical ending over not being given a canonical ending? Haven't we simply been saying that we think it would have been a cool idea to have Athas's sun eventually turn into a black hole? I don't think the latter implies the former. (It doesn't for me.)

If so, my fault. I got the impression some posters were saying they preferred this direction for a campaign setting...

 

[Imaro]

I'm sorry, but this really reads as pushback to me.

Why? Because it's a neat idea. That's the beginning and end of it for me. Why do you need more than that? I've got nothing more for ya, I just think it's neat and would've dug it had WotC gone ahead with the idea.

If WotC does decide to blow up the Dark Sun campaign (or suck it into a black hole), this doesn't close off the setting. Not for your table, not for the DM's Guild, not for future official books.

It's just a neat idea, man. That's it!

Ok well we don't need to discuss it further. I don't like being framed as antagonistic when trying to better understand a preference. Because you do... hey good enough for me.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Boy, this thread is really going to confuse people who jump on it in February to discuss the Monster Manual when it's actually released.

 

[JEB]

And that's exactly why they didn't call it 6e or 5 5.

Yep. Pathfinder left a scar.

I don't specifically wish they had destroyed Dark Sun so much as prefer that to what we got which was a Wildspace system eerily remincent of Athasspace and with lots of Dark Sun monsters but really a different place.

I'm guessing either someone (maybe a playtester) pointed out that the proposed 5e "Athaspace" was going to really upset some fans of the original setting. Or maybe they reconsidered after seeing the pushback to VRGTR from some classic Ravenloft fans. Hence the fairly late change to "Doomspace". And I think they were right to do it, since some folks (including here!) were indeed upset by the idea.

 

[JEB]

Why the pushback? Some folks think it's a cool idea . . . you don't. Okay.

What madness is this? People can have different opinions, with each being valid for that person? I thought there was one correct view and all the other views were dumb and wrong! My entire understanding of this discussion has been transformed!!!