D&D General 5e D&D to OSR pipeline or circle?

[dave2008]

I'm okay with finding random loot in the game world; however, randomized progression in terms of character abilities per level is a big reason why I am NOT playing Shadowdark in the first place.

I thought an "official" option was to simply pick the one you wanted. Maybe I just immediately jumped to that "fix" in my mind since I don't like the idea of random progression either. Regardless, that would be super easy to implement.

 

[Aldarc]

I actually find that exciting. It's one of the things in Shadowdark that draw me to the game.

Different strokes for different folks, which is fine. As I said before, I'm glad that Shadowdark exists for the people who enjoy it. It's just that some of its key design decisions are also major personal pet peeves.

Kelsey says that it's meant to discourage optimization and builds, but I'm not sure how that really solves anything if you are just choosing your class anyway with no multiclassing. If there are going to be class levels, I prefer something a little more predictable, which is own personal psychological hang-up.

I thought an "official" option as to simply pick the one you wanted. Maybe I just immediately jumped to that "fix" in my mind since I don't like the idea of random progression either. Regardless, that would be super easy to implement.

If it is, I've never heard anyone talk about it. I have seen people browbeat other people on Reddit when people ask about changing randomized character progression and magical mishaps. However, it's possible that players would just choose the optimal talent options. I would prefer something that was just mapped out in advance.

I would sooner remove class-specific progression entirely so that your class just represented your starting package of abilities than I would in playing a game with randomized class/level progression.

 

[zakael19]

Different strokes for different folks, which is fine. As I said before, I'm glad that Shadowdark exists for the people who enjoy it. It's just that some of its key design decisions are also major personal pet peeves.

Kelsey says that it's meant to discourage optimization and builds, but I'm not sure how that really solves anything if you are just choosing your class anyway with no multiclassing. If there are going to be class levels, I prefer something a little more predictable, which is own personal psychological hang-up.


If it is, I've never heard anyone talk about it. I have seen people browbeat other people on Reddit when people ask about changing randomized character progression and magical mishaps. However, it's possible that players would just choose the optimal talent options. I would prefer something that was just mapped out in advance.

I would sooner remove class-specific progression entirely so that your class just represented your starting package of abilities than I would in playing a game with randomized class/level progression.

That’s how Symbaroum’s messy system works. It’s all skill based (3 tiers per skill) - so you can combine whatever. Your stats (and you have a set array to distribute) do more “class” pidgeon-holing.

It’s kinda neat actually, player rolls and GM just gives modifiers. But apparently quite easy to unbalance.

 

[TwoSix]

I would sooner remove class-specific progression entirely so that your class just represented your starting package of abilities than I would in playing a game with randomized class/level progression.

Detailed character creation, but with little to no metagame-fixed progression after that is my personal ideal.

 

[dave2008]

If it is, I've never heard anyone talk about it. I have seen people browbeat other people on Reddit when people ask about changing randomized character progression and magical mishaps. However, it's possible that players would just choose the optimal talent options. I would prefer something that was just mapped out in advance.

I just checked, it is not. Clearly it was only in my "official" head canon!

 

[Aldarc]

That’s how Symbaroum’s messy system works. It’s all skill based (3 tiers per skill) - so you can combine whatever. Your stats (and you have a set array to distribute) do more “class” pidgeon-holing.

It’s kinda neat actually, player rolls and GM just gives modifiers. But apparently quite easy to unbalance.

I am perfectly fine with rolling for progression in skill-based games like Dragonbane, RuneQuest, or CoC. The player makes a choice for what skill they are gambling on improving, and there is an incentive to choose a skill with a lower rating than one with a higher rating. I'm also not randomly rolling for what talent that I will get for my character in Dragonbane.

Detailed character creation, but with little to no metagame-fixed progression after that is my personal ideal.

Obviously, I agree at least when it comes to an OSR-like game. I don't think that would work for other games that I enjoy like Fabula Ultima.

I just checked, it is not. Clearly it was only in my "official" head canon!

Happens.

 

[zakael19]

Right, sorry, I mean it’s skills more like 5e feats/abilities. You pick them to make up your character’s capability - there’s no set “classes.” Kinda like FU but with no classes to fence selection.

 

[pemerton]

and like I said, it was the norm several years ago that "This behavior should always be discouraged, because it detracts from real role-playing and spoils the suspension of disbelief." (DMG 3.5, p11). Both the 3.5, 4e, and 5e DMG discourage it. Google "metagame thinking" and you will get dozens of forum posts and blogs advising how to avoid it. "But good actually" wasn't common belief*, and I certainly hadn't heard it described as such until this thread.

* Thats not to say unheard of, Gary certainly felt it was a useful tool, but even he had his limits.

I'm not sure why you're making such a big deal of "storytelling"/AP play norms differing from "skilled play"/OSR-ish play norms. I mean, of course they differ! If they didn't, then we wouldn't have distinctive approaches to RPGing.

 

[Remathilis]

The original version of Hackmaster described itself as "3rd ed AD&D".

Yup. Unfortunately, due to its parody design, it opted to make the game more complicated than less. I want exceptional strength removed, not added to the other five ability scores.

 

[Remathilis]

I'm not sure why you're making such a big deal of "storytelling"/AP play norms differing from "skilled play"/OSR-ish play norms. I mean, of course they differ! If they didn't, then we wouldn't have distinctive approaches to RPGing.

Like I said, this was an eye opener because I generally believed that the consensus was it was bad and the question was how to avoid it rather than if you should embrace it.