D&D General 5e D&D to OSR pipeline or circle?

[Micah Sweet]

Yup. Unfortunately, due to its parody design, it opted to make the game more complicated than less. I want exceptional strength removed, not added to the other five ability scores.

I liked Hackmaster's complexity personally. Different strokes.

 

[Malmuria]

Dolmenwood has some of this as a strand in their GM book. Provides “campaign types” as player driven (sandbox), plot driven, and mixed. It’s got suggestions for milestone leveling, campaign themes, all the factional conflicts/desires/“what they might ask players to do” & etc. You could run a very story-based campaign using the material provided.

Was going to say exactly this. In terms of being a system, Dolmenwood is essentially b/x with a few house rules. But clearly it is meant to be run as a long-form campaign, with PCs traversing an extremely dense map, pursuing plot threads that are spread across that map, and engaging with complex factions. People are already running rather extended campaigns in this setting.

I'd argue that what makes a Dolmenwood campaign more 'OSR' and less 2e/AP style play is a group that understands that there are consequences for actions taken in game and that failure is on the table. The 'story' is not a pre-defined set of encounters (encounters in which die rolls are fudged to keep characters alive). The story emerges from what the characters do, how they engage with the factions, who they align with, who they alienate, where they go. It's sandbox play, and actually there is nothing stopping one from running 5e in that style either.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Was going to say exactly this. In terms of being a system, Dolmenwood is essentially b/x with a few house rules. But clearly it is meant to be run as a long-form campaign, with PCs traversing an extremely dense map, pursuing plot threads that are spread across that map, and engaging with complex factions. People are already running rather extended campaigns in this setting.

I'd argue that what makes a Dolmenwood campaign more 'OSR' and less 2e/AP style play is a group that understands that there are consequences for actions taken in game and that failure is on the table. The 'story' is not a pre-defined set of encounters (encounters in which die rolls are fudged to keep characters alive). The story emerges from what the characters do, how they engage with the factions, who they align with, who they alienate, where they go. It's sandbox play, and actually there is nothing stopping one from running 5e in that style either.

My philosophy in a nutshell.

 

[zakael19]

Like I said, this was an eye opener because I generally believed that the consensus was it was bad and the question was how to avoid it rather than if you should embrace it.

you thought the entire OSR movement with all its myriad games to facilitate it was inherently bad play?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Like I said, this was an eye opener because I generally believed that the consensus was it was bad and the question was how to avoid it rather than if you should embrace it.

You should probably stop listening to whoever was making you think this was the "consensus." Lord knows what other nonsense opinions they're spouting.

 

[Willie the Duck]

That’s how Symbaroum’s messy system works. It’s all skill based (3 tiers per skill) - so you can combine whatever. Your stats (and you have a set array to distribute) do more “class” pidgeon-holing.

It’s kinda neat actually, player rolls and GM just gives modifiers. But apparently quite easy to unbalance.

Right, sorry, I mean it’s skills more like 5e feats/abilities. You pick them to make up your character’s capability - there’s no set “classes.” Kinda like FU but with no classes to fence selection.

The way I describe Symbaroum's 'Skills' are sets of D&D 3e-like feat chains, excepting that each chain is 3 deep. The model isn't inherently more abusable than any other build-a-bear system (see: any and all of the point-buy systems); it just seemed that the designers drank heavily from the well of system mastery design.

Like I said, this was an eye opener because I generally believed that the consensus was it was bad and the question was how to avoid it rather than if you should embrace it.

There are very little consensus in gaming. Particularly with any given playstyle well enough represented to get an actual official or unofficial name. Note also that when people say something is bad, there's often a silent 'when taken too far' attached (and there it makes even more sense to seek advice on how to avoid doing it).

 

[Remathilis]

You should probably stop listening to whoever was making you think this was the "consensus." Lord knows what other nonsense opinions they're spouting.

Right. I'll make sure to throw out the 3e - 5e DMGs, plenty of old issues of Dragon, and I'll block dozens of people and blogs who have discussed.

Huh. Wonder why I keep hearing an echo now ...

 

[Remathilis]

you thought the entire OSR movement with all its myriad games to facilitate it was inherently bad play?

I assumed that avoiding metagaming was a goal for them as well.

 

[zakael19]

I assumed that avoiding metagaming was a goal for them as well.

OSR is literally a test of player skill and creativity. None of us are (as far as I know) actual fantasy adventurers - it's all using your own knowledge through what your character could reasonably be expected to know or do.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Right. I'll make sure to throw out the 3e - 5e DMGs, plenty of old issues of Dragon, and I'll block dozens of people and blogs who have discussed.

If your 3E DMG is whispering to you that the OSR is bad and dumb, you have a haunted (and incorrect) DMG.

And those bloggers and posters are an echo chamber and aren't representative of the larger ttrpg community, so yeah, you should probably start widening your pool of people you listen to.

I would start by quietly subscribing (you don't have to tell anyone!) to the Between Two Cairns podcast and just listen to any episodes in the back catalog that appeal to you (they're almost all centered around a single published adventure). Yochai in particular is extremely frank about how he feels about adventures past and present and I think you'll get a better grasp on what the OSR has to offer than whatever this 32 page tennis game has been.

People in this thread have bent over backwards trying to explain all of this to you, despite you being consistently unpleasant and insulting to nearly everyone. The echo you're hearing is your own voice, my man.