D&D General Redesigning DnD 5e with no Bonus Actions

[Lakesidefantasy]

Transform it into some kind of three action economy system.

Lol! I’ve only read Pathfinder 2e, haven’t had the chance to play it yet. I do think a 3 action system could definitely work for current 5e.

No! No! No! Noooooooooope! Nada! Not ever going back to that ever again.

Full actions, standard actions, move actions, swift actions, free actions, and, my favorite, not an actions. Barf!

 

[Clint_L]

[deleted]

 

[Distracted DM]

Would love to hear more about this from @mearls . I remember him saying this on his twitch streams back in the mid-late 2010's.

I'd want to know how to axe them... Some stuff seems easy, like TWF and rage+attack, but things like misty step or other bonus action spells?

And what the reply is this to sentiments like this:

The problem with looking at bonus actions as bloat is the alternative - potential bloat in the kind of distinct actions individual classes can take or tons of caveats about what else you can do with the action you're taking (misty step written to allow some other kind of action when cast, rage+something else, rogues and monks can double move... sometimes?). And while that would preserve the one action + move economy, I'm not sure it really gets you any more than that.

Having a distinct bonus action may be more complex but it also allows fairly complex mixtures of action, movement, bonus action that really help keep classes distinct and flavorful.

I imagine that's the sort of argument that led to bonus actions being kept in the final version of 5e... And yet Mearls regrets going with that and thinks it's better to ditch them.

 

[cbwjm]

No! No! No! Noooooooooope! Nada! Not ever going back to that ever again.

Full actions, standard actions, move actions, swift actions, free actions, and, my favorite, not an actions. Barf!

I don't believe that's how PF2e works. You just have actions, 3 of them, and you can decide how to use them.

 

[cbwjm]

I reckon for bonus action spells you could potentially tie them into some other thing so that Misty Step becomes, when you move, you can cast this spell as part of that movement and teleport up to 30 feet. Definitely more wordy than "Casting Time: Bonus Action" but it could be an alternative when moving to strip out bonus actions from the game.

Essentially, casting time would become "free when you move on your turn"

 

[Horwath]

i would take out bonus actions, and then i'd add a new action to the game called a 'lesser action' which is similar to a standard action but which only a certain set of abilities and spells can be used with it.

So how is that different from Bonus action except for a name change?

And as Mearls said, that he invented Bonus action, unless he was the designer in 3rd edition when Swift action was invented(or was that 3.5e?), he didn't invent anything. He just rebranded the idea that was in the game for more than 10 years and 2 editions before 5E.

Only reason it was named Bonus action and not Minor action is to distance 5E from 4E as much as possible.

 

[cbwjm]

so how is that different from Bonus action except for a name change.

As as Mearls said, that he invented Bonus action, unless he was the designer in 3rd edition when Swift action was invented(or was that 3.5e?), he didn't invent anything. He just rebranded the idea that was in the game for more than 10 years and 2 editions before 5E.

Only reason it was named Bonus action and not Minor action is to distance 5E from 4E as much as possible.

They mention it in another post, but that was the joke. They aren't different.

 

[Horwath]

Guess that some (Bonus) action can be worded similar to fighters Action surge and some just molded into Action.

PAM feat just adds 1d4 attack to your Attack action, same as TWF.

Misty step.
Action. Teleport 30ft,
you can immediate take another action except casting a spell with a spell slot.

Hunters mark/hex/divine favor/smite
Action.
you can immediate take Attack action or cast a cantrip

Wild shape.
Action. Turn into an animal.
Immediately take another action from animals stat block.

Rage.
Action. You gain Rage.
immediately make an Attack action

Dash.
Action. Move your speed. Or move twice your speed in a straight line over non-difficult terrain.

Flurry of blows.
Add 2 unarmed attacks to your Attack action.

GWM,
when you score a crit during your Attack action, add one more attack with that weapon to your Attack action.

(Mass)Healing word.
Action.
after casting healing word you can cast a cantrip or take Attack action

Command a pet/companion/mount/familiar/whatever
Give command(s) to your companion(s).
you can take any action after this except another Command Action.

shillelagh
Action
you can take an Attack action.

etc...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

i would take out bonus actions, and then i'd add a new action to the game called a 'lesser action' which is similar to a standard action but which only a certain set of abilities and spells can be used with it.

I would use neither. I think I'd add a type that is called swift action. An action that can be used faster than an action.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Bonus actions / Minor actions / Swift actions etc. all have been in the game because of one simple fact-- D&D players cannot be trusted.

The ultimate design choice would be there are things that are Actions... and then everything else. And everything else wouldn't need to have some sort of "action" appellation, they'd just be the other stuff characters could do in a turn in addition to their "Action". But the problem is... without there being some sort of "economy" to imply or tell players how many of these things they logistically and realistically could do during their turn... a non-zero amount of players would break the system by wanting to do dozens upon dozens of these free activities every turn "because the rules don't say I can't!" Certain players have ruined things for everyone else.

As a result... the designers needed a way to separate non-Actions that you can do as much of as you want in your 6-second turn... and then all the stuff that you only get to do once in a 6-second turn because otherwise it becomes too unwieldy and players break the system. Hence the idea of a "smaller action" that you can only do one of on top of your actual Action of attacking or casting a spell. Even Pathfinder 2 has this with their "three action" system, but they just reverse the sizing to have "bigger actions" that take up more of their three action economy rather than D&D's "smaller actions" that take up less. But the effect is the same... a character can do a certain number of things in their turn, with some things being bigger, some smaller, and some don't even "count" in terms of number of things.