D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[QuentinGeorge]

Nah. One or the other. Choose.

Ok, put the sentence "Greyhawk is a D&D setting" in the DMG and open it up on DMsGuild.

 

[Sulicius]

My plan is:

1. make some quick creation rules that is basically a functional table. Monsters using the quick rules will function per CR, but will not have interesting features and can't deviate from the table much.
2. Role modification templates. A few simple templates to modify a quick monster and give it a bit more character
3. Fully creation rules, that with the quick rules and then how to modify the monster for significant differences in AC, HP, attack, DPR, saves, and features

I think you'd be replicating Forge of Foes, which has all of that and more. I can't recommend it enough.

What I think people should realize, is that no monster hits an exact challenge because of the hundreds of factors that go into encounter balance. My encounters have improved the most when I stopped caring about the exact challenge, and focused on the story. The more I relied on enemy motivation, in-combat role play, descriptions of monsters and making the PC's feel heroic, the better my combats became.

One player being distracted because of work can swing the combat more than +1 on a monster's attack or +5 to their damage. I have had times where I just forgot to use a reaction or bonus action, and it was too much work to retcon that. Sometimes a player decides their sorcerer should be in melee, sometimes a monster keeps rolling crits.

All these things will matter so much more than perfect encounter math. I am not saying we don't need anything, but as long as there is a solid core to the math (like a nice stats by CR table from Forge of Foes), we can figure the rest out.

All I really want is a table with those numbers.

 

[dave2008]

I think you'd be replicating Forge of Foes, which has all of that and more. I can't recommend it enough.

I am aware (I have it); however, it is out of date with the new monster math. I asked Mike if they plan to update FoF with the new math and he said no. So I am going to give it a go once I get the MM. Since I will need to revise it, I am also going to compare and contrast with other 5e monster builders (5e14, A5e, & TotV) and see if I can improve or streamline the guidelines.

All these things will matter so much more than perfect encounter math. I am not saying we don't need anything, but as long as there is a solid core to the math (like a nice stats by CR table from Forge of Foes), we can figure the rest out.

All I really want is a table with those numbers.

That is what a I plan to update (and more too) with new numbers that correspond to the new math.

 

[Sulicius]

I am aware (I have it); however, it is out of date with the new monster math. I asked Mike if they plan to update FoF with the new math and he said no. So I am going to give it a go once I get the MM. Since I will need to revise it, I am also going to compare and contrast with other 5e monster builders (5e14, A5e, & TotV) and see if I can improve or streamline the guidelines.


That is what a I plan to update (and more too) with new numbers that correspond to the new math.

Prefect! I'd love to see it!

 

[dave2008]

Prefect! I'd love to see it!

FYI, I have done a quick overview of LevelUp (A5e), Forge of Foes (FoF), and Tales of the Valiant (TotV). Based on the previewed Empyrean stat block it seems like TotV is most similar (by the numbers) to the new 2024 monsters. However, all of them are underpowered at this high CR compared to the new 2024 monsters.

I plan to mix and match all three (take the parts I like the best from each) and draft the guide in a week or two (work and life preventing me from starting sooner) and have it ready to review against the new MM when it comes out. Hopefully it will just be some tweaking from there.

 

[Imaro]

yeah, as I wrote, matter of preference

Still do not see either as more central to core DM tools / guidance than what we got instead, but I am sure people can disagree on that as well

I would say there's a pretty strong argument that having an actual campaign setting in the core books makes it a more complete game than having rules to create monsters... especially with the number of monsters provided.

 

[Imaro]

FYI, I have done a quick overview of LevelUp (A5e), Forge of Foes (FoF), and Tales of the Valiant (TotV). Based on the previewed Empyrean stat block it seems like TotV is most similar (by the numbers) to the new 2024 monsters. However, all of them are underpowered at this high CR compared to the new 2024 monsters.

I plan to mix and match all three (take the parts I like the best from each) and draft the guide in a week or two (work and life preventing me from starting sooner) and have it ready to review against the new MM when it comes out. Hopefully it will just be some tweaking from there.

I'm a little confused on what I've heard around TotV monsters. Mainly that the monsters at lower CR's were made to hit harder. Was this a problem that needed solving? I'm playing a 2024 game that just started and while the PC's feel like they have more options than in 2014 (and this could just be my own bias)... they don't feel significantly more durable and lower level (at least so far) still feels swingy. I'm not sure what purpose making low CR monsers hit harder served.... e3specially as you noted above, that higher CR monsters are underpowered. I've been tempted to grab this book until the MM comes out but I'm trying to understand if it's worh it or if I should just wait it out for 2 weeks.

Also does TotV have monster creation rules?

Also...also...which, if any of these books would you recommend grabbing as a supplement and/or gap filler until the MM comes out?

 

[dave2008]

I'm a little confused on what I've heard around TotV monsters. Mainly that the monsters at lower CR's were made to hit harder. Was this a problem that needed solving?

I have heard that too and I don't think that is an issue that needed to be solved. Most people think low levels are the most deadly, seems like a mistake to me.

However, I am just looking at the monster creation rules and comparing them to the new MM (not to TotV or A5e monsters). Also, I am starting at the upper CRs and working my way down.

Also does TotV have monster creation rules?

Yes, probably the most robust rules of the three (A5e, FoF, TotV), but I am just starting my comparative analysis.

Also...also...which, if any of these books would you recommend grabbing as a supplement and/or gap filler until the MM comes out?

Are you talking about monster creation or just monsters?

 

[mamba]

I'm a little confused on what I've heard around TotV monsters. Mainly that the monsters at lower CR's were made to hit harder.

no idea if this is true in the first place, but if it is then maybe because ToV characters are a bit stronger starting out than 2014 ones

 

[mamba]

I would say there's a pretty strong argument that having an actual campaign setting in the core books makes it a more complete game than having rules to create monsters...

as I said, I was sure someone could / would disagree

I do not consider describing a whole continent at a high level essential at all. If you want any setting information (rather than info on how to create one) in the DMG, then give me a starting town and region with a little adventure and hooks for others

This is especially true for a setting agnostic TTRPG. If you have one ‘baked in’ that is a different scenario