D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[Imaro]

they made the game they needed to make when the OGL debacle happened, it's their insurance policy for when WotC throws another crazy fit

So... not the most creative choice...right?

 

[Imaro]

My point is that it much more obviously that now. They have said so in a way they didn't 10 years ago, back when they cared about players who might not want that style of play (which coincidentally was before 5e became insanely popular). Huh.

Rem8nd me again in what editions was the Fighter called an actual superhero at later levels?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Hyperbole here is to quash the argument about whether a hypothetical problematic product would actually be problematic. Yes Morrus would never create such a product, but replace with any product you feel would create a backlash and the result is the same.

But the point remains the same: you can't have true freedom as long as there are financial concerns. Paizo felt a backlash about slavery in Absalom and opted to limit its freedom to save its profit margin. There is no difference between what Paizo did and what WotC did. Only a matter of scale. So if you're going to argue WotC has limited creativity in order to chase profits, then so has Paizo and Kobold Press and every other game company. Except maybe those independent designers who throw their handmade games on the Web for free. Those are the only fully creative game designers in the industry.

Is that the criteria you want to measure creativity by?

I think there are plenty of topics for products that aren't slavery, and plenty of financial models that aren't WotC's. But if you insist on an all or nothing point of view here I can't stop you.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Rem8nd me again in what editions was the Fighter called an actual superhero at later levels?

I don't see how level titles with no mechanical effect affect this discussion.

 

[Imaro]

I don't see how level titles with no mechanical effect affect this discussion.

They are descriptive titles of the class... including mechanics... at said level. It certainly shows us what the designers thought the class was best represented but at that level.

 

[Remathilis]

I think there are plenty of topics for products that aren't slavery, and plenty of financial models that aren't WotC's. But if you insist on an all or nothing point of view here I can't stop you.

I insist on believing that WotC is not unique when it comes to balancing financial and creative concerns. To the point I don't feel they are different from any other game company. But you insist on holding them to a standard you will not hold any other companies to, proving your bias.

 

[mamba]

What was my question? Better yet what was the claim that I was questioning...

technically not a question, but you wrote

I find this argument interesting when most (all) 3pp haven't actually created their own system, but have instead opted to take the work done by the designers you are disparaging and build on it.

As you said, 3pps are defined by creating something for an existing system rather than their own, and yet you basically criticize them for doing what makes them 3pps

 

[mamba]

So... not the most creative choice...right?

no, but arguably a necessity, which limits your creative choices

 

[mamba]

Rem8nd me again in what editions was the Fighter called an actual superhero at later levels?

as if that title meant anything other than Gygax running out of ideas for names. also the next level was Lord...

 

[Imaro]

technically not a question, but you wrote


As you said, 3pps are defined by creating something for an existing system rather than their own, and yet you basically criticize them for doing what makes them 3pps

If you think I criticized them you're not following the conversation.