D&D 5E Don't Throw 5e Away Because of Hasbro

[AlViking]

This thread was about WotC and 5e though. And isn’t it great people are more informed today?

I was pointing out that companies put under the microscope like hasbro is would have the same number of issues or more because people make mistakes and companies large and small are profit driven. If I didn't buy stuff from companies that did something or thought about doing something I disagreed with once every couple of years I'd likely have to be self sufficient living in a cave. I just don't really care about stuff like this when it was reversed before implementation or was repercussions of the acts of a handful of youtubers who should have known better. As far as the pinkertons that someone mentioned even the guy who reported it only mentioned it twice and the second time said that it was being blown out of proportion and it was mostly a misunderstanding. Maybe some people are looking for any excuse to blame wizards for them choosing to play different games.

I've stated my thoughts on this and we're just not going to agree.

 

[TheSword]

This argument doesn´t hold water since WotC isn´t known for angering people when they try new things and take risks. If anything people seem more upset with them being to safe and only extend themselves when it comes to milking more money out of their audience. On the other hand there are a lot of innovation and risk taking in the indie-sphere and at the same time a lot less vitriol from what I have experienced.

So what you’re describing is two different types of risk. Sure a 3pp trying a niche product or something new is a risk for them, they have limited resources and need to put it into the right area.

However you’re misunderstanding risk if you think WotC isn’t taking any. Developing an integrated VTT platform is an expensive risk. Engaging with content creators that are vocally critical of you to build relationships is a risk. Maintaining open licencing and working with 3pp that work with you but are also publishing alternatives to your work is a risk. Changing the tone of your products to reflect changes in culture is a finely balanced risk. Supporting earlier editions than the current one is a risk. AI is a huge risk more riskier than all the others. WotC is the gorilla in the room but it is also the one with the most to lose. What’s the phrase, “the bigger they are”?

There is also opportunity in these areas but let’s be honest WotC is doing things over the course of 5e they haven’t done before, certainly on this scale. It would have been very easy for them to stick to tried methods. The point is they are trying to work their way through changes in an industry that is unrecognizable to what it was 15 years ago. There are hundreds if not thousands of decision points being juggled to do that, but the handful that get dropped and then corrected.

The truth is the entitlement factor has got so high we’ve lost perspective. In complaining about being asked temporarily to blur their product pages were forgetting that they actually allow their products to be shown before release and give youtubers preview copies which gives them views and content. We’re so busy complaining about the Pinkertons to remember that a guy who wasn’t given permission to have the cards was posting full card details to the internet and refused to give them back. We’re so concerned that previous version details weren’t immediately accessible online that we’ve forgotten that we are getting access to earlier edition rules in a live system. And we’re so caught up in up in the idea that there might be any AI in our art that we forget that there are hundreds of awesome pieces being produced for us in every product.

 

[TiQuinn]

The truth is the entitlement factor has got so high we’ve lost perspective. In complaining about being asked temporarily to blur their product pages were forgetting that they actually allow their products to be shown before release and give youtubers preview copies which gives them views and content.

And it seems you don’t have the perspective that the whole purpose of a creator relations program within Wizards of the Coast is because the company gains something valuable from these creators - marketing and positive word of mouth that helps build interest and excitement in their product. It is not out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

[AlViking]

And it seems you don’t have the perspective that the whole purpose of a creator relations program within Wizards of the Coast is because the company gains something valuable from these creators - marketing and positive word of mouth that helps build interest and excitement in their product. It is not out of the goodness of their hearts.

Of course decisions are made in their own self interest that's what companies do. It's a potential risk as well.

 

[Faolyn]

I was pointing out that companies put under the microscope like hasbro is would have the same number of issues or more because people make mistakes and companies large and small are profit driven. If I didn't buy stuff from companies that did something or thought about doing something I disagreed with once every couple of years I'd likely have to be self sufficient living in a cave.

OK, here's the thing.

I am disabled, can't drive, and mostly house-bound. I buy things from Amazon because it's one of the very few ways I can actually obtain many of my daily necessities--things I need, such as household supplies--at a reasonable price. While I could buy those things through other stores or directly from the companies that make them, they're often much more expensive there. So Amazon is a necessary evil.

I don't need D&D. RPGs are a luxury, and not just that, but a luxury that I can get through hundreds, or possibly thousands of other companies, many of which are much less expensive (in part because I can legally buy pdfs instead of physical books, in part because a lot of other people charge less for books that are just as big). I'm not going to be forced to live in a cave because I don't buy from WotC.

 

[Retreater]

I do feel disconnected from the TTRPG community. For example, there aren't great YouTube channels about how to run Savage Worlds. There aren't threads on here where GMs are sharing their experiences running Paths of Glory for Dragonbane. Other GMs aren't reviewing Techno Fantasy for Fabula Ultima or hyping up 13th Age 2nd Edition. When I want to put on a gaming podcast during my drive, 9/10 times it's D&D (or 5E-compatible.)
D&D 5E is a monoculture, like the grass lawns of a suburban neighborhood.

 

[TheSword]

And it seems you don’t have the perspective that the whole purpose of a creator relations program within Wizards of the Coast is because the company gains something valuable from these creators - marketing and positive word of mouth that helps build interest and excitement in their product. It is not out of the goodness of their hearts.

I understand it’s not charity. Never said otherwise. It’s symbiotic or at least it used to be. The content creators assist the larger organisation by creating hype but gain access and information they wouldn’t otherwise have that generated them followers, ad revenue and a platform to launch their own products. The same way the original 3pp were intended to do when the OGL operated, and Paizo published great magazines for 3e.

The problem was Paizo upended the paradigm of 3e in response to 4e and started taking bites out of the flank of its host instead of keeping it healthy - cloning the product leading to direct competition. The content creators for 5e (some more than others) spend time hammering WotC for every decision because it fills air time and generates click.

I understand the perspective.

 

[TheSword]

I do feel disconnected from the TTRPG community. For example, there aren't great YouTube channels about how to run Savage Worlds. There aren't threads on here where GMs are sharing their experiences running Paths of Glory for Dragonbane. Other GMs aren't reviewing Techno Fantasy for Fabula Ultima or hyping up 13th Age 2nd Edition. When I want to put on a gaming podcast during my drive, 9/10 times it's D&D (or 5E-compatible.)
D&D 5E is a monoculture, like the grass lawns of a suburban neighborhood.

D&D 5e is really extremely varied and an incredibly broad church. It’s not really a monoculture. There are tens of millions of people playing 5e in slightly different ways. It’s awesome.

I’m sorry to say that the reason those products haven’t got the community is that they just aren’t popular enough yet. We say popularity doesn’t equal a great game, but in truth 5e’s popularity is what allows all that content and support you miss.

It’s very hard to be both indie and ubiquitous. Most folks seem to be happy with a small slice of the pie.

 

[Micah Sweet]

D&D 5e is really extremely varied and an incredibly broad church. It’s not really a monoculture. There are tens of millions of people playing 5e in slightly different ways. It’s awesome.

I’m sorry to say that the reason those products haven’t got the community is that they just aren’t popular enough yet. We say popularity doesn’t equal a great game, but in truth 5e’s popularity is what allows all that content and support you miss.

It’s very hard to be both indie and ubiquitous. Most folks seem to be happy with a small slice of the pie.

I often wish that everybody was happy with a small slice of the pie.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

I do feel disconnected from the TTRPG community. For example, there aren't great YouTube channels about how to run Savage Worlds. There aren't threads on here where GMs are sharing their experiences running Paths of Glory for Dragonbane. Other GMs aren't reviewing Techno Fantasy for Fabula Ultima or hyping up 13th Age 2nd Edition. When I want to put on a gaming podcast during my drive, 9/10 times it's D&D (or 5E-compatible.)
D&D 5E is a monoculture, like the grass lawns of a suburban neighborhood.

"Why do we have to hide from the police, Daddy?"
"We use vi, son. They use emacs."

Make the obvious substitutions, and that's me.