D&D (2024) DMG 2024: Is The Sandbox Campaign Dead?

[Distracted DM]

Feel free to suggest other ways to measure D&D's success. I'm sure there are some, but selling more copies of the PHB in less than three months than the previous version (which, in turn, sold substantially better than all previous edition PHBs) sold in three years seems like a reasonable starting point for assessing how well D&D is going.

Those numbers are comparing 5e24 phb vs 5e14 phb. That's the comparison I'm interested in, but the numbers don't exist yet to properly compare them. If we had three years of 5e14 sales vs three years of 5e24 sales, I'd be more comfortable ... As it is, I couldn't make a fair comparison- but speculation based on hype math isn't something I'm interested in.

 

[Firwood]

Quoting from this article on ENWorld's front page: "the English-language, analog version (ie., physical books) of the 2024 Players Handbook reached the same sales numbers that the 2014 PHB did in three years across all languages."

There is no confirmation of the accuracy of these claims.
Hasbro's investor reports for Q3 2024 all show declining numbers (and there have been numerous articles about this), which also led to a class action lawsuit against Hasbro for untrue communications to inflate the numbers.
The triumphant statements made by those who created the product, in light of the numerous contradictions that have emerged so far, are to be taken with caution (to make a comparison, albeit an improper one, look at EA and Bioware's statements with Dragon Age the Veilguard, which were debunked as soon as real data found on Steam emerged).
That said, my comment is about the quality or alleged quality of the latest version of D&D, not about the sales numbers.
I have no interest or claim to determine which edition is better, as this is a personal judgment. I find it ridiculous when someone stands on a pedestal and spouts judgement as if they possess the truth in their hands, treating those with a different view disrespectfully.

 

[Firwood]

Quoting from this article on ENWorld's front page: "the English-language, analog version (ie., physical books) of the 2024 Players Handbook reached the same sales numbers that the 2014 PHB did in three years across all languages."

Weell

I feel like I've fallen into a time warp to 2009.

2009 does not exist. D&D 4E does not exist. They are just nightmares that return from time to time
Joking aside, I just stated my opinion about the version of the system I enjoyed the least.
Those who enjoy it and still use it today do very well to do so.
The great thing about TTRPGs is that you don't have to chase the publisher in order to have fun; even 40-year-old manuals are just fine and you can keep using them for another 40!

 

[Echohawk]

I find it ridiculous when someone stands on a pedestal and spouts judgement as if they possess the truth in their hands, treating those with a different view disrespectfully.

To recap the context:

Mort claimed "D&D is doing better than it has EVER done."

You asked if they were sure about that particular sentence.

I quoted something written by one of ENWorld's columnists, offering what I consider to be reasonable evidence that, yes, D&D is doing better than ever.

You are welcome to assume that WotC is lying about their sales figures in press interviews. You are also welcome to decide that, for you, "D&D is doing better" should rather be measured based on how you feel about the quality of recent products.

But equating a justifiable claim that "D&D is doing better than is has EVEN done" to "someone stand[ing] on a pedestal and spout[ing] judgement as if they possess the truth in their hands, treating those with a different view disrespectfully" does not seem reasonable.

 

[Echohawk]

If we had three years of 5e14 sales vs three years of 5e24 sales, I'd be more comfortable ... As it is, I couldn't make a fair comparison- but speculation based on hype math isn't something I'm interested in.

I am 100% confident that, if we did have three years of sales figures for the 2024 PHB, those figures would still indicate that it had outsold the first three years of 2014 PHB sales, because maths.

 

[Distracted DM]

I am 100% confident that, if we did have three years of sales figures for the 2024 PHB, those figures would still indicate that it had outsold the first three years of 2014 PHB sales, because maths.

I didn't say the first three years

 

[Firwood]

To recap the context:

Mort claimed "D&D is doing better than it has EVER done."

You asked if they were sure about that particular sentence.

I quoted something written by one of ENWorld's columnists, offering what I consider to be reasonable evidence that, yes, D&D is doing better than ever.

You are welcome to assume that WotC is lying about their sales figures in press interviews. You are also welcome to decide that, for you, "D&D is doing better" should rather be measured based on how you feel about the quality of recent products.

But equating a justifiable claim that "D&D is doing better than is has EVEN done" to "someone stand[ing] on a pedestal and spout[ing] judgement as if they possess the truth in their hands, treating those with a different view disrespectfully" does not seem reasonable.

The most reliable source is shareholder reports, and there is no record of this incredible sales success.
Also I want to mention that in regard to the sales of the Player's Handbook, WOTC has always said “the product,” not “the handbook,” and it is not at all clear what is meant by product.
The EnWorld columnist did a great job, but to date there are no numbers or indications or concrete evidence about the sales of of of the new manual.
I apologize for any misunderstandings as I am not a native English speaker. I found the sarcasm of the author of the post very annoying.

EDIT: The report numbers in Q3 are negative, I am waiting to see the Q4 report and the yearly trend (since I still have Hasbro stock in the drawer I am obviously very interested in it!).

 

[Echohawk]

I didn't say the first three years

I'm confused. Are you suggesting that we should compare three different years of sales of the 2014 and 2024 PHBs? Are you suggesting that the possibility that the 2031-2033 PHB2024 sales will be weaker than the 2021-2023 PHB2014 sales could somehow be an indication that D&D is not doing well in 2025?

In general, I think it is expected that sales comparisons should respect causality

 

[Mort]

Are you sure about this sentence? Better than EVER? Someone may just tell this is not true, and WOTC is loosing lot of customer due to their "great work" with 2024 D&D edition.

I'm talking about 5e not just 5e 2024 (Hasbro has owned WoTC a long time). The poster I was responding to made the claim that Hasbro has done a terrible job minding D&D.

I'm not talking about quality or interested in an edition war, I'm talking about sales. And it's not close, 5e has simply outsold other editions by a lot.

Now, if you don't like the direction of D&D or how the current edition plays? 100% you prerogative.

 

[Firwood]

I'm confused. Are you suggesting that we should compare three different years of sales of the 2014 and 2024 PHBs? Are you suggesting that the possibility that the 2031-2033 PHB2024 sales will be weaker than the 2021-2023 PHB2014 sales could somehow be an indication that D&D is not doing well in 2025?

In general, I think it is expected that sales comparisons should respect causality

No, what I don't know, and apparently no one does, are the sales numbers cited by WOTC (sold more than Tasha, the fastest selling product, etc.).
I am limiting myself to the sales figures boasted by WOTC for Q3 for which there is no feedback. I don't know how the trend is in Q4.