D&D (2024) DMG 2024: Is The Sandbox Campaign Dead?

[Bae'zel]

Sounds like a great topic for a seperate thread: "Hasbro's profits on D&D 5e", amirite?

I've never thought about sandbox vs. campaign grittiness level vs. PC power. Interesting.

 

[FrozenNorth]

it makes absolutely sense from a marketing point of view for WotC to push "buy more prepared adventures and adventure paths with established campaign throughlines"

It also sets up for future Prepare products that 'teach' DMs about "How to run Dungeon Exploration" and "How to run a Sandbox"

its monetizing the DM experience

Sorry, how is publishing more books « monetizing the DM experience » when you are a publisher?

I went to a restaurant last night. The food was good, but I feel they were monetizing the dining experience.

When you apply a term to everything, it ceases to have any meaning.

 

[mamba]

For the record, I do not believe this is a relevant question.

it’s a context question. If there wasn’t anything the last 10 years then I would not expect anything now either, and if sandboxes survived the last 10 years without it, then they just might continue to do so. It’s not like 2014 did not onboard a lot of people

 

[Firwood]

that right there might be your answer, given when the PHB was released

Maybe. But WOTC say in september, that the new player's handbook is the fast selling product ever. My doubts are about this statement, doubts later confirmed by Hasbro's Q3 financial report.
But... mybe i'm wrong and the handbook sold really very well. It should be nice that such a great success have some real and verifiable source.

 

[mamba]

No, at the opposite: BG3 save the company. They have less income in other digital media, but BG3 has the big numbers in HASBRO account.

that number was bigger last year

 

[mamba]

Maybe. But WOTC say in september, that the new player's handbook is the fast selling product ever. My doubts are about this statement, doubts later confirmed by Hasbro's Q3 financial report.
But... mybe i'm wrong and the handbook sold really very well.

they recently said the print version alone by now had sold more than the first 3 years of the 2014 PHB (or all of 3e, 3.5 or 4e PHBs individually), so I’d say it is selling very well.

The ‘problem’ is that they do not make a ton of money per book, so the drop in BG3 licensing fees still reduces the overall profit despite this

 

[Firwood]

they recently said the print version alone by now had sold more than the first 3 years of the 2014 PHB (or all of 3e, 3.5 or 4e PHBs individually), so I’d say it is selling very well.

The ‘problem’ is that they do not make a ton of money per book, so the drop in BG3 licensing fees still reduces the overall profit despite this

Yes, they told this, but there are no confirmation. The only third part source with real number (still in last september after they claim the huge success) is this ( not the article but the source of copy sold): WOTC Inflates Sales Numbers for Player’s Handbook - Physical Book Sales Might Be Low - TGN - Tabletop Gaming News.
So... i'm not so sure they are telling the truth.

 

[Oofta]

No, at the opposite: BG3 save the company. They have less income in other digital media, but BG3 has the big numbers in HASBRO account.

BG3 did not "save" the company that was already publishing the most popular TTRPG ever. It was a fun video game and it certainly boosted their profits in a way that helped counterbalance the losses on the toy making side of the company. But "saved" them? Nah.

 

[Oofta]

I'd wager there's market research suggesting the majority of players aren't playing a sandbox game, or at least the majority that are actively buying WOTC products. It's a harder sort of game to pull off because it requires a bigger level of investment from the players, and depending on how complex, possibly a lot more work from the DM.

I think true sandboxes are a rare campaign style. I can't really describe my campaign as a sandbox because while it evolves as encounters are resolved one way or another and change direction based on player decisions, I do have broad directions and goals for the campaign. Those directions and goals can and frequently do change based on what happens during play and what the players express interest in, but there's always at least one plot hook leading forward. In addition, true sandboxes that I've played in can become boring. There was a lack of motivation or direction to keep moving forward in games, a lack of interesting goals for us to pursue.

Meanwhile there is no clear definition of different styles of campaign and the differences between styles is fuzzy. Last I remember reading, roughly half of the games run are homebrew campaigns. But would my campaign qualify as a sandbox or not? How do you describe Critical Role where there are multiple paths the group can take to get to a specific goal? Heck if I know. There are enumerable ways of running campaigns including those that switch from one style to the next as the game progresses, or like mine where the players choose a direction for the next chapter of the campaign and for a little bit we're on a somewhat linear path.

But just because the DMG only talks about one style of game that works best for beginners, it means nothing about what kind of homebrew campaign people will run. There were complaints about the 2014 DMG being too wishy-washy and not giving clear direction for newbies. Now people are complaining about having concrete direction for newbies. Once again, WotC can't win.

 

[Reynard]

But just because the DMG only talks about one style of game that works best for beginners, it means nothing about what kind of homebrew campaign people will run. There were complaints about the 2014 DMG being too wishy-washy and not giving clear direction for newbies. Now people are complaining about having concrete direction for newbies. Once again, WotC can't win.

Yes, let's couch this discussion as bagging on WotC. That will surely help -- almost as much as turning it into a discussion about profits margins.

The subject is: will the lack of sandbox information in the 2024 DMG lead to a generation of people that come to D&D via 2024 NOT playing sandbox style games, or even knowing they exist?