Dragonbane general thread

[Aldarc]

I hope this helps! Love that you are doing these write-ups. Please do. They are invaluable

Thanks. It's been pretty interesting for me running these games for my partner who is going out of their comfort zone to play TTRPGs, and it's downright encouraging to hear them say "next time" so assuredly when we finish a session. There have only been a few where they have talked about "next time" before, namely Fantasy AGE and Fabula Ultima (which they ran). But I think that the simplicity of Dragonbane works well for my partner, and they seem to have taken a real shine to roll-under mechanics.

I think that before we begin next time, I will probably walk through their characters again, reminding them of their abilities as well as optional rules like Find Weak Spot. There were several times, for example, where it may have been useful for Aodhan to use his human trait Adaptive. They have also not used Makander's Guardian ability yet, but they may need to in this upcoming fight, as he is the PC best equipped to take hits. There is also an optional rule in the book that leather armor gets +2 armor against bludgeoning weapons, and I believe that the Wight uses a Morningstar, but I find it a bit weird that while leather and chain get added benefits from this optional rule, plate gets nothing.

My partner is not the sort to kill Grub, and one possibility that I am musing about is what happens if I roll on the random events chart that goblins return. Will the goblins attack the PCs? Will my partner try to convince Grub and the goblins to team up against the Wight? But even if my partner decides to team up with the goblins, what happens when they realize they want the same thing? Or will the goblins go in a different direction than the PCs and run into the Wight? (I may roll for that as well: 1-3, left turn; 4-6, right turn.)

 

[overgeeked]

My partner is not the sort to kill Grub, and one possibility that I am musing about is what happens if I roll on the random events chart that goblins return. Will the goblins attack the PCs? Will my partner try to convince Grub and the goblins to team up against the Wight? But even if my partner decides to team up with the goblins, what happens when they realize they want the same thing? Or will the goblins go in a different direction than the PCs and run into the Wight? (I may roll for that as well: 1-3, left turn; 4-6, right turn.)

Don’t forget about the charts and tables in the solo book. They could help you there.

 

[Wolfpack48]

Yeah, it's also a very old-school approach. Modern games have a lot to answer for in training players to blindly charge in constantly instead of doing anything approaching planning or thinking about the situation or the environment.

I distinctly remember running the AD&D A-series when monsters began using strategy and environment in their fights; it was a revolution. The players began taking more notice of objects and terrain in their planning, and it was a key ingredient moving to wilderness, city and other non-dungeon scenarios.

 

[overgeeked]

I distinctly remember running the AD&D A-series when monsters began using strategy and environment in their fights; it was a revolution. The players began taking more notice of objects and terrain in their planning, and it was a key ingredient moving to wilderness, city and other non-dungeon scenarios.

Yeah, the referee can really make a difference if they do that stuff to the PCs. It gets them really thinking about and interacting with the environment. Lead by example and all that. Most times it works, other times...not so much. First time running Dragonbane I made a point of having an overabundance of improvised weapons specifically to show the players they could use such things, and made a point of telling them they could improvise outside the cards. Even had the NPCs use several of the improvised weapons to show how cool they were. So what did the PCs do? Proceed to move into position, stand stock still, and hack away at the NPCs until they died. Never even considered using the improvised weapons. After the session I asked why. "It's a waste of a turn. It's more optimal to just attack." Shrug.

 

[Bill Zebub]

On the other hand, I think the worthy goal of encouraging "environmental tactical play" turns into adventures trying to specify exactly what that looks like. E.g. "If the party fills the carts with ore, then rolls them to the edge of the mine shaft, and then down below lures the monster underneath the opening, and pushes the cart over the edge, it will result in 10d10 bludgeoning damage..." etc.

The odds of the players figuring out exactly that plan are pretty slim. But they will probably think of something else.

GMs need to be open to creative improvisation, reward players for such creativity, and follow the Rule of Cool. Even if (or especially if?) it means their carefully crafted adventure takes an unexpected turn.

Sometimes what the players think is cool isn't want the GM thinks is cool, and problems arise when the GM can't recognize that.

I just learned this with the group my kids are in: they love gonzo, Monty Haul gaming, with huge XP and treasure rewards, and crazy rulings (e.g., the sorcerer punches the beholder and rolls a nat 20...killing the beholder.). I had to walk away; it was torturing me! But they were having a blast.

 

[overgeeked]

On the other hand, I think the worthy goal of encouraging "environmental tactical play" turns into adventures trying to specify exactly what that looks like. E.g. "If the party fills the carts with ore, then rolls them to the edge of the mine shaft, and then down below lures the monster underneath the opening, and pushes the cart over the edge, it will result in 10d10 bludgeoning damage..." etc.

The odds of the players figuring out exactly that plan are pretty slim. But they will probably think of something else.

Thankfully that's a non-issue with Dragonbane's improvised weapons. They're available to use and have a specific thing they can do, spelled out in black-and-white. It's not an obscure string of if, then statements that must be guessed and followed to get any kind of good result. It's stuff like "grab a handful of dirt and throw it in your enemy's eyes."

GMs need to be open to creative improvisation, reward players for such creativity, and follow the Rule of Cool. Even if (or especially if?) it means their carefully crafted adventure takes an unexpected turn.

Exactly. That's why you shouldn't carefully craft adventures. The referee is in charge of problems, obstacles, and challenges. The players and their PCs are in charge of solutions and workarounds.

Sometimes what the players think is cool isn't want the GM thinks is cool, and problems arise when the GM can't recognize that.

I just learned this with the group my kids are in: they love gonzo, Monty Haul gaming, with huge XP and treasure rewards, and crazy rulings (e.g., the sorcerer punches the beholder and rolls a nat 20...killing the beholder.). I had to walk away; it was torturing me! But they were having a blast.

Yeah. I prefer gonzo setting elements to play with. And high-pulp action. Not a fan of Monty Haul or one-shotting beholders. Though I did play the Dungeon! boardgame with my wife and child years ago and "Muscle wizard casts fist!" quickly became a regular battle cry.

 

[Wolfpack48]

Yeah, the referee can really make a difference if they do that stuff to the PCs. It gets them really thinking about and interacting with the environment. Lead by example and all that. Most times it works, other times...not so much. First time running Dragonbane I made a point of having an overabundance of improvised weapons specifically to show the players they could use such things, and made a point of telling them they could improvise outside the cards. Even had the NPCs use several of the improvised weapons to show how cool they were. So what did the PCs do? Proceed to move into position, stand stock still, and hack away at the NPCs until they died. Never even considered using the improvised weapons. After the session I asked why. "It's a waste of a turn. It's more optimal to just attack." Shrug.

Having an imaginative group is a real blessing in roleplaying. The problem I run into is new players who are not ready to have full freedom to do things -- they are always asking "what am I allowed to do here?" either due to playing lots of computer games, or just not used to having ultimate freedom in a game. Getting them used to just knowing what their character can do alone, not even mentioning that they can use items in their environment. The cards can help but often they are overwhelmed with even the basics.

 

[Wolfpack48]

.

 

[Wolfpack48]

On the other hand, I think the worthy goal of encouraging "environmental tactical play" turns into adventures trying to specify exactly what that looks like. E.g. "If the party fills the carts with ore, then rolls them to the edge of the mine shaft, and then down below lures the monster underneath the opening, and pushes the cart over the edge, it will result in 10d10 bludgeoning damage..." etc.

The odds of the players figuring out exactly that plan are pretty slim. But they will probably think of something else.

GMs need to be open to creative improvisation, reward players for such creativity, and follow the Rule of Cool. Even if (or especially if?) it means their carefully crafted adventure takes an unexpected turn.

Sometimes what the players think is cool isn't want the GM thinks is cool, and problems arise when the GM can't recognize that.

I just learned this with the group my kids are in: they love gonzo, Monty Haul gaming, with huge XP and treasure rewards, and crazy rulings (e.g., the sorcerer punches the beholder and rolls a nat 20...killing the beholder.). I had to walk away; it was torturing me! But they were having a blast.

LOL, that's how we played in our early days. As we got older, we discovered it's not as much fun if it's too easy. I think that just comes with maturity. For now, whatever is the most fun for them is the right thing to do.

 

[overgeeked]

Having an imaginative group is a real blessing in roleplaying. The problem I run into is new players who are not ready to have full freedom to do things -- they are always asking "what am I allowed to do here?" either due to playing lots of computer games, or just not used to having ultimate freedom in a game. Getting them used to just knowing what their character can do alone, not even mentioning that they can use items in their environment. The cards can help but often they are overwhelmed with even the basics.

Yeah. The best workaround for that I've found so far is don't bother with the rules. Don't try to teach them the mechanics. Start with "Tell me what you want to do and I'll tell you what happens." Anything mechanical is on me and handled in my head. Step one in teaching RPGs is, to me, teaching that very ability to do anything. If you start from there the player tends ot keep their head in that "I can try anything" space rather than starting from the mechanics and all the limitations that come with them.