D&D (2024) Not a fan of the new Eldritch Knight

[FrogReaver]

This is it?
This is the end of this legendary thread?
Damn, what a banger.

Lower your expectations and you won’t be disappointed.

 

[Lewis3579]

Lower your expectations and you won’t be disappointed.

Nah, Im actually learning a lot from those guys so my expectations is already full filled.

 

[Lewis3579]

So after all of this, I come up with a EK build like:
Lv20 human fighter Eldrict Knight.
Back ground: Sage, take some utilities spell and cantrips. Addition origins feat: magic adept druid (int), take shillelagh and another utility cantrip and spell.
Im using the buy point systems so starting start will be STR 15, DEX 10, CON 16, INT 17, WIS 10, CHA 8.
Fighting style is defense.
Weapon mastery in quarterstaff, javelin, hand axe,...
At lv3, EK with 2 cantrips is true strike and blade ward, spell is shield, elemental aborts and other utility spell.
Lv4, take war caster and increase INT to 18.
Lv6, take polearm master and increase STR to 16.

Lv7, take blur and misty step for lv2 spell slot.
Lv8, abilities increase, CON to 18.
Lv10, another cantrip, take toll of the death cause now you can make them have disadvantaged on saving throw.
Lv12, shadows touch, take Wrathful Smite, increase INT to 19.
Lv13, take haste, fly, counter spell,...
Lv14, abilities improve, INT to 20, CON to 19.
Lv16, Heavy amour master, CON to 20.
Lv19, dimensional travel, INT 21 or CON 21.


In combat, start from lv4.
4: Staff (also your spell focus) and shield, you just casting true strike every turn after cast blade ward once, nothing more or less (AC: 21 + 1d4, dmg 1d6 + 3/4).
5-6: Staff and shield, you only equip staff at first, the free hand have access to component pouch/miles stone for casting shillelagh, sacrifice 1 action to equip shield, action surge, attack twice and that all you do for the rest of combat. At lv6 you can attack thrice with bonus action so at least bear with that. (AC: 21, dmg 1d10+4 x 2 + 1d4+4)
7-10: This is where you become better at defense. Staff and shield, you only equip staff at first, the free hand have access to component pouch/miles stone for casting shillelagh, attack once and cast blade ward (or just cast blur), action surge, take out your shield (AC: 21+ 1d4 or 21 with disadvantaged on getting hit, dmg: 1d10+4 + 1d10+1d6+4 + 1d4+4).
11-12: Same with 7-10 but your dmg increase, dmg: 1d12+4 x 2 + 1d12+4+2d6 + 1d4+4).
After 13: This where you get better at both offense and defense (also mobility) cause you no longer have to sacrifice while action just to equip shield (you sacrifice it to cast haste). Staff and shield, you only equip staff at first, the free hand have access to component pouch/miles stone for casting shillelagh, cast haste, use hasted action to equip shield, actions surge, attack twice and true strike (AC: 23, dmg 1d12+5 x 3 + 1d12+5+2d6 + 1d4+5).
Lv17 increase you weapon dmd and true strike dmg, lv 20 give you 1 more attack.

The better the staff the stronger you are, and you can combo with Wrathfull Smite after a attack hit. Your mobility is good and you have high hp/ac, but don't have good range option (you can still fire you cantrips and throw axes i guess).
If you can use war magic with cantrip or spell from feat then you can be more selfish and take more dmg or cc spell/cantrip from wizard spell list. But if not then you can go like I mention above.
Hit them with the staff and topple enemies, slow them down, push them away, sap them,... Weapon mastery make you can kite many opponents that suck at range attack (but you are a tank so I guess it not gonna happen too often).

 

[PurpleWizard]

Overall I am pretty happy with the 2024 subclasses, but EK is an exception to this. I hate it.

Eldritch Knight was my favorite fighter subclass by far and it was the fighter I played the most with 2014 rules. Usually I dumped Intelligence, maxed Charisma and multiclassed with a Bard, Sorcerer or Warlock, usually with a 1-4 level dip in one of those.

When played that way in 2014 the class was awesome, Warmagic was not as effective as the Bladesinger extra attack but it was pretty darn fun. On the new EK, Warmagic gets a slight improvement and then a big nerf. It works with the attack action, not requiring an extra action, but it also only works with your Wizard spells. This means Eldritch Blast is not even usable with it and it means if you want to use it in combat you really need to have a good Intelligence, when most fighters dump intelligence.

I have been trying to put together a good EK build and I can't figure one that is going to work for me. I am having trouble figuring why I would ever play an Eldritch Knight when a Valor Bard is available.

This is so brain dead. You are playing a int base subclass, with obvioulsy ties to wizard and is complaining that you can't min/max with some stupid multiclass combo?

 

[ECMO3]

This is so brain dead. You are playing a int base subclass, with obvioulsy ties to wizard and is complaining that you can't min/max with some stupid multiclass combo?

No with a really powerful and more importanly cool multiclass combo.

 

[ECMO3]

So after all of this, I come up with a EK build like:
Lv20 human fighter Eldrict Knight.
Back ground: Sage, take some utilities spell and cantrips. Addition origins feat: magic adept druid (int), take shillelagh and another utility cantrip and spell.
Im using the buy point systems so starting start will be STR 15, DEX 10, CON 16, INT 17, WIS 10, CHA 8.
Fighting style is defense.
Weapon mastery in quarterstaff, javelin, hand axe,...
At lv3, EK with 2 cantrips is true strike and blade ward, spell is shield, elemental aborts and other utility spell.
Lv4, take war caster and increase INT to 18.
Lv6, take polearm master and increase STR to 16.

Lv7, take blur and misty step for lv2 spell slot.
Lv8, abilities increase, CON to 18.
Lv10, another cantrip, take toll of the death cause now you can make them have disadvantaged on saving throw.
Lv12, shadows touch, take Wrathful Smite, increase INT to 19.
Lv13, take haste, fly, counter spell,...
Lv14, abilities improve, INT to 20, CON to 19.
Lv16, Heavy amour master, CON to 20.
Lv19, dimensional travel, INT 21 or CON 21.


In combat, start from lv4.
4: Staff (also your spell focus) and shield, you just casting true strike every turn after cast blade ward once, nothing more or less (AC: 21 + 1d4, dmg 1d6 + 3/4).
5-6: Staff and shield, you only equip staff at first, the free hand have access to component pouch/miles stone for casting shillelagh, sacrifice 1 action to equip shield, action surge, attack twice and that all you do for the rest of combat. At lv6 you can attack thrice with bonus action so at least bear with that. (AC: 21, dmg 1d10+4 x 2 + 1d4+4)
7-10: This is where you become better at defense. Staff and shield, you only equip staff at first, the free hand have access to component pouch/miles stone for casting shillelagh, attack once and cast blade ward (or just cast blur), action surge, take out your shield (AC: 21+ 1d4 or 21 with disadvantaged on getting hit, dmg: 1d10+4 + 1d10+1d6+4 + 1d4+4).
11-12: Same with 7-10 but your dmg increase, dmg: 1d12+4 x 2 + 1d12+4+2d6 + 1d4+4).
After 13: This where you get better at both offense and defense (also mobility) cause you no longer have to sacrifice while action just to equip shield (you sacrifice it to cast haste). Staff and shield, you only equip staff at first, the free hand have access to component pouch/miles stone for casting shillelagh, cast haste, use hasted action to equip shield, actions surge, attack twice and true strike (AC: 23, dmg 1d12+5 x 3 + 1d12+5+2d6 + 1d4+5).
Lv17 increase you weapon dmd and true strike dmg, lv 20 give you 1 more attack.

The better the staff the stronger you are, and you can combo with Wrathfull Smite after a attack hit. Your mobility is good and you have high hp/ac, but don't have good range option (you can still fire you cantrips and throw axes i guess).
If you can use war magic with cantrip or spell from feat then you can be more selfish and take more dmg or cc spell/cantrip from wizard spell list. But if not then you can go like I mention above.
Hit them with the staff and topple enemies, slow them down, push them away, sap them,... Weapon mastery make you can kite many opponents that suck at range attack (but you are a tank so I guess it not gonna happen too often).

You can't do the stats you post on 27 point buy. the scores you post cost 31 on point buy.

That said, based on my experience with 2024, there are a few mistakes here IMO - first putting way too much value on Constitution. I think ideal for this type of build is S16 D14 C10 I17 W8 CH8 and get the Tough Feat to make up for a mediocre Constitution. The main problem with running a low dexterity is it is going to be poor initiative. This is especially true in the 2024 game when playing with static enemy initiative. a -1 is far more debilitating now than it was in 2014.

Alternatively you can dump dexterity and take the alert feat to make up for initiative, but you want a good initiative, especially when you are using a frightened effect like you will be with Wrathful Smite.

The second mistake is PAM, especially when combining it with Wrathful Smite which is going to burn your bonus action when you use it. Also tactical shift uses a bonus action. Add to that lower damage and I think that puts you at a disadvantage at high level.

You are going to make your bonus action problem worse with Shilleleagh, and you don't need Shillelagh, you have truestrike which uses intelligence anyway and that is your main damage dealer when you take the attack action.

For Feats I think a better option is:

Level 4: Shadow Touched - Wrathful Smite Int 18
Level 6: Warcaster - Int 19
Level 8: Fey Touched - Dissonant Wispers - Int 20
Level 12: GWM - S17
Level 14: HAM or Mage Slayer- S18

At this point I would look at potentially going for Constitution, but TBH I would still prioritize strength even here.