D&D General Drow & Orcs Removed from the Monster Manual

[Scribe]

I think the argument here is that's a big break between "generic Western culture" and "fantasy fiction-adjacent culture". Within Nerdspace, elves are pretty much always Tolkien elves. Outside that, not so much.

Fine, totally!

We are still however talking D&D. And D&D IS Generic Western Culture. Its Tolkien, its WoW.

 

[TwoSix]

We are still however talking D&D. And D&D IS Generic Western Culture. Its Tolkien, its WoW.

There's a blending, but there's still distinctions. Not every fantasy trope has migrated into broader culture.

 

[Mistwell]

What do you need to remember? That orcs have darkvision?

It was a short paragraph you replied to. It was specific as to what I was saying. Darkvision wasn't mentioned. If you cannot be bothered to care what you're replying to, then don't reply. But please, don't make up a strawman argument and think you're helping.

Not hard to remember that pretty much every species other than humans have darkvision.

You're being reckless and rude. Please read what you replied to.

Beyond that, what makes an orc pirate different from every other species of pirate?

EXACTLY the things I noted in the post you replied to but didn't read.

 

[Maxperson]

But if you were trapped in a warehouse with some guard dogs who wanted to rip your throat out, and you had a weapon, what would you do?

It’s the context that matters, not the species.

Right, so there's no real reason to treat orcs and drow in D&D differently than dogs in D&D when it comes to portraying them as enemies. They didn't take dogs out of the MM.

Leave the enemies be and let the individual games sort out how to portray them and in what contexts.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Pop culture elf:

View attachment 395421

He is a human raised by elves. The smallness of his elf family is a plot point.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Right, so there's no real reason to treat orcs and drow in D&D differently than dogs in D&D when it comes to portraying them as enemies

The large number of humanoid stat blocks in the Monster Manual don’t work for dogs. They work just fine for orcs and drow though.

 

[TwoSix]

Sure, but outside that they clearly split between "Christmas Elves" and "Fey" as two different and basically unrelated concepts, Fey being less common but certainly extant.

I think the sticking point is that the "tiny but highly magical race" trope is both strong but doesn't have a handy container name; so "elves" is pretty common to use for it. (See: Santa, Dobby.)

Elves as tiny magical beings is definitely in the decline overall.

 

[TiQuinn]

Fantasies also do not have anything to do with real world morals unless you act on them, in which case they are no longer fantasies.

What if you think that you're a tough military bruiser carrying a too large to lift gun while wearing a Punisher shirt, and act like you've seen these types of characters act in games and movies? Not in the sense of they will ever, ever get into an actual combat situation, but they take all the toxic masculinity with them? Part of that is fantasy, and now part of it is real.

 

[Maxperson]

I think the argument here is that's a big break between "generic Western culture" and "fantasy fiction-adjacent culture". Within Nerdspace, elves are pretty much always Tolkien elves. Outside that, not so much.

Anime elves are generally also largish. Definitely a lot taller than Dobby or D&D sprites.

 

[TwoSix]

Anime elves are generally also largish. Definitely a lot taller than Dobby or D&D sprites.

You don't get much more "in Nerdspace" than anime elves.