D&D (2024) 2025's Ancient Green Dragon Stat Block From The New Monster Manual

The new ancient green dragon from the 2025 Monster Manual was previewed at Gen Con.

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[Jensaarai]

I kinda like the white dragon's design to be honest.

There's something vaguely polar bear-ish about it.

 

[dave2008]

It's this one.
This image right here is probably the thing that kills the design for me the most. It's gone past muscular brute and well into bobblehead, and the main culprit is probably the two-tiered jaw. It would still look stocky and intimidating if its head was half that wide (as in, if it followed that first upturn of the jaw below the eye as the end of the jaw, and didn't add another head's worth of jaw to either side).

Like I said, we will have to agree to disagree on the white. Personally, I think you are taking any one image to literally. In this image the appearance of the oversize head is in large part due to perspective. If you look at the image of Tiamat, the reference design, or the image from the PDF, the head is not that big. For me, it is adequately sized for the theme of the dragon. For you it is not. That is OK.

PS - I just checked the PDF and per the reference art the white skull is no larger than the rest of the dragons. There is a nice little scale in the PDF so it is easy to check

I'm not certain what you think I'm saying there - I want different dragons to take different sets of inspirations from different sets of animals, and would prefer that they didn't overlap too much in which inspirations they put where. I did misinterpret you saying you thought avian was a mistake for the white as you thinking avian was a mistake period, I apologize for that.

I prefer each dragon take inspiration from multiple animals, as that is there mythology precedent. However, I am not opposed to a more streamline inspiration. The green is heavily inspired by serpents and that works just fine.

I think there is something similar, with the way their long, skinny snout flares/rounds out at the tip. I could see some possible vague spinosaurus inspiration here.
View attachment 390642
...Although that could just be eel inspiration converging on a face that's good for catching fish, depending on where one sits on the heated (no I'm not kidding) "did spinosaurus primarily eat fish" debate in paleontology.

Yes, this is some inspiration there. The head is more spinosaurian or crocodilian than snake like that is for sure.

 

[dave2008]

I kinda like the white dragon's design to be honest.

There's something vaguely polar bear-ish about it.

I agree!

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

It's this one.
This image right here is probably the thing that kills the design for me the most.

I would suggest you don’t take any one image as the default standard. Many artist work these books and each one’s a different style or take on a creature. One image doesn’t reflect the design of the whole.

 

[Queer Venger]

why am I feeling like the new MM is going to have baddies that finally kick ass and take names???

Oh, Hi Uni!!!

 

[Dakkon42]

Now that the MM is out, how do you think that the previewed stats look like in comparison with the actual ones?

I honestly feel that I prefer the previewed ones, they seem more dynamic (and I actually prefer dragons having more spellcasting options)

What are your opinions?

 

[dave2008]

Now that the MM is out, how do you think that the previewed stats look like in comparison with the actual ones?

I honestly feel that I prefer the previewed ones, they seem more dynamic (and I actually prefer dragons having more spellcasting options)

What are your opinions?

They are virtually the same. The only difference is the spell casting and the spell use option in legendary action (vs as a reaction). Here are my thoughts:

• I think legendary actions are easier to use than reactions, so I like that those are back. +1 for MM stat block
• Having more spells would be nice, so +1 for preview stat block.
• The change for me is the removal of Charm Monster. Charm monster (and cloud kill) for me is much more on theme than mind spike (which is OK). so + 1 for preview stat block

Despite the preview statblock winning 2-1, I think I prefer the MM stat bock because I find LA that much easier to use. However, if I would use an ancient green I would give it the spells from the preview stat block.

I imagine they changed this because playtesting indicated Charm monster (5th level version able to be cast 4x round and thus remove an 8-team party in 1 round) was just to powerful. However, it feels appropriate to me for an ancient dragon (but maybe just 1 or 2x / round).

 

[GarrettKP]

They are virtually the same. The only difference is the spell casting and the spell use option in legendary action (vs as a reaction). Here are my thoughts:

• I think legendary actions are easier to use than reactions, so I like that those are back. +1 for MM stat block
• Having more spells would be nice, so +1 for preview stat block.
• The change for me is the removal of Charm Monster. Charm monster (and cloud kill) for me is much more on theme than mind spike (which is OK). so + 1 for preview stat block

Despite the preview statblock winning 2-1, I think I prefer the MM stat bock because I find LA that much easier to use. However, if I would use an ancient green I would give it the spells from the preview stat block.

I imagine they changed this because playtesting indicated Charm monster (5th level version able to be cast 4x round and thus remove an 8-team party in 1 round) was just to powerful. However, it feels appropriate to me for an ancient dragon (but maybe just 1 or 2x / round).

I think they changed it because charm as a condition is less fun to play against for the party than just more damage. Especially on a monster that can charm so many targets for free over and over again.

Now, I wish they still had the spell as a more limited casting option, maybe 2/day or something? But as a reaction plus action option without a limit, it was brutal.