D&D General Drow & Orcs Removed from the Monster Manual

[Bedrockgames]

As a member of the tribe, I can tell you that no eyebrows were raised in the Jewish community that I was ever made aware of.

Honestly, the entire idea that "phylactery" is a synonym for "tefillin" is one that's near-totally gentile in nature. While there might be Jewish communities out there that use the term phylactery, it's exceptionally nonstandard for a Greek term to be used, rather than a Hebrew one.

From what I've looked up before, the only reason the word phylactery is associated with teffilin at all is because the ancient Jews essentially stole the idea from the Greeks in the first place. The way I heard it, they encountered Greeks who were wearing amulets with prayers to their gods (or just the gods' names, I'm not sure) on them, and thought "hey, that's pretty cool, we should do this" which eventually became boxes with small prayer verses in them. But the term wasn't brought over.

Or, at this guy puts it:


All of which is to say that the idea of removing the term "phylactery" in an attempt not to offend me and people who identify like me is at best pointless, and at worse patronizing. I haven't spoken to one other Jewish person who's approved of the change, and if there are any out there who think this is a good thing, I feel confident in stating that they're (extreme) outliers.

My father's mother was Jewish and we grew up with celebrating certain Jewish holidays. I am not Jewish myself but definitely have a radar for anti-semitism and know plenty of Jewish people. I never really heard anything about this being an issue either (and it never really struck me as a problem). I did see there was an article written about and I think the writer was Jewish but the article also struck me as taking a somewhat uncommon position on the issue.

There is something about them mentioned in the Book of Matthew that another poster mentioned, but I don't think there is much connection to that with liches

Also someone mentioned that the Van Richten guide to lich is where this connection originates. I remember that book but not that element. The Guide Liches is generally highly regarded. I may take another look to remember the full context (but I think it was just more normal back then to borrow from religion and history for flavor and lore)

 

[Bedrockgames]

It's for kids. The meta-text was never intended to be obscure. Some of it might seem that way now if you aren't British and/or don't remember the 60s or 70s!

Lol, we probably don't want to derail the orc and drow talk with a protracted Doctor Who discussion, but I was aware of that. I have to admit a lot of the new Who doesn't always strike me as super kid friendly (though I can still see the children's show in stuff they do). It feels like a show that is trying to appeal to adults and to kids. Maybe that is just me as an American. I have seen some of the old Hartnell episodes and those definitely look more like the kinds of kids shows I remember watching as a child. Like it is more purely a kids show. And we got the Baker episodes here when I was maybe in elementary school (at the time I just thought of them as a kind of scary show, but watching them again a few years ago, I can see it is a kids show that is sort of gradually introducing them to scary themes). But that joke in particular would be one I'd expect to fly over the head of a child as I doubt they even know the concept of cultural appropriation. Also I don't think it is something the show really needs to apologize for (it is an ancient pantheon that people in Egypt today no longer recognize)

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It feels like a show that is trying to appeal to adults and to kids

No, it is, and always has been. It’s what’s known as “family viewing”. Scary (in a good way) for kids, and knowing jokes (and occasional political asides) for the adults.

A good example from the Hartnell era is Land of the Giants, which was actually about the pesticide DDT which was in the news at the time.

 

[Bedrockgames]

No, it is, and always has been. It’s what’s known as “family viewing”. Scary (in a good way) for kids, and knowing jokes (and occasional political asides) for the adults.

A good example from the Hartnell era is Land of the Giants, which was actually about the pesticide DDT which was in the news at the time.

Oh no, I get that. I remember some of the old Baker episodes had strong environmental themes. I just meant, there his a lot of innuendo in the reboot series that seems much more geared for adults than children

 

[Alzrius]

“Wonderful” to see that someone made a whole video in response to people being upset about the use of the word and deciding he needed his own rage video.

Well, that video is seven years old, so if nothing else you have to give the guy props for getting in on this debate rather early.

 

[SkidAce]

There are orcs in Call of the Netherdeap, but they are friendly.

But I wouldn't read too much into it, I have never made much use of orcs, on account of them being boring.

They dont even exist in my campaign.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

They dont even exist in my campaign.

I think it’s telling that orcs where the 1st species to be removed from an official setting (Dragonlance).

 

[Remathilis]

Orcs whatever let's get to my list of real gripes.

The Lich removes the Phylactery and replaces it with a Spirit Jar. Seriously we have to dumb down the game because the word is obscure and hard to spell.

Full disclosure had to look up how it was spelled.

Why don't we just change the name from Lich to Undead Magic Guys if we are simplifying game.

Is this another place where "Paizo did it first" doesn't apply?

 

[Remathilis]

We'd have to remove Asmodeus and pretty much most of the Archdevils.

Well, that's a little more complicated. Most of the demon and angel lore in D&D is based on real world demonology, but the origins of much of that lore is not based on religious texts, but on apocrypha (texts of a religious nature that aren't sanctified by the church). It's a mix of folklore, obscure references to religious names, old mythology and some modern fiction (Pazuzu). Further, their are so many different interpretations that D&D isn't doing anything more than any modern movie or book author is.

Long story short, D&D's specific angels and demons aren't really any more religious than frost giants and nymphs are.

 

[Scribe]

Well, that video is seven years old, so if nothing else you have to give the guy props for getting in on this debate rather early.

I feel like this had come up in PF or something.

Is this another place where "Paizo did it first" doesn't apply?

Thats what I thought too.

Either way, Shadowdark left it as is, and just calls it a spirit vessel as well as part of the definition.