D&D (2024) Wrapping up first 2-20 2024 campaign this week, some of my thoughts

[Sword of Spirit]

Did drinking potions as a bonus action have any appreciable effect on battles? And were you applying that to all potions (per DMG rules) or just healing potions, since you started before the DMG was out?

 

[Oofta]

And that’s where you totally lose me. How incompetent is your Dm that you are ending nearly every fight in one round? I’m sorry but this is just ridiculous. Most of your fights are one round and none go more than 2?

This is 100% a dm failure issue and nothing to do with the mechanics.

Adjusting the difficulty and challenge of the game is something a DM has to do at every level for every group.

 

[Hussar]

So, let me see if I'm understanding this.

1. DM is allowing the players to shop in the DMG for magic items and buy whatever item they can afford when they can afford it. (Something that is 100% advised against in every single source in the game)

2. DM is using a 2014 era module, unmodified against a larger than standard party.

3. Play is so fast that in 20 weeks, they have advanced 18 levels. Now, nothing has been said about how often they are playing or how long, but, of course the DM isn't adjusting. By the time he realizes there is an issue, the party has already moved on.

4. DM apparently has the tactical acumen of a concussed beaver. By @ECMO3 's account, no combat at very high levels is lasting more than 2 rounds. :wow: That's just insane. A 20th level encounter could be 4 beholders. I don't care what magic items your party has, that's a fight that's going to take more than 2 rounds. The only way that this is true is if every fight is in nearly empty rooms, no flying, no maneuvering, and the enemies never have any reactive abilities to escape. Something that is virtually never true in high level enemies.

And, apparently, the takeaway from this is that there is a problem with the DMG? Seriously? There isn't the slightest possibility that the issue is largely self-inflicted?

 

[ECMO3]

Did drinking potions as a bonus action have any appreciable effect on battles? And were you applying that to all potions (per DMG rules) or just healing potions, since you started before the DMG was out?

Applied it to all potions and they can only be drank (or administered) as a bonus action (not as an action).

It did affect things, but it was not a big deal.

The rules on mixing potions were a bigger deal with people not wanting to drink potions of Healing while under the affect of another potion.

 

[ECMO3]

So, let me see if I'm understanding this.

No I am not sure you are understanding.

2. DM is using a 2014 era module, unmodified against a larger than standard party.

The adventure was made I believe in 2024 and includes a lot of the playtest stuff like Weapon masteries.

The party size was 5

3. Play is so fast that in 20 weeks, they have advanced 18 levels.

No. We started at level 2, so it is 17 levels in 22 sessions. I am fairly confident we will get our last 2 levels in the next session (23 sessions, 20 levels)

It is a little slower than most of our previous non-XP 5E adventures.

Vecna was 9 sessions (for 10 levels).

SODQ was 11 sessions for 13 (I think?) levels

Moonshae Adventures was 19 sessions for 20 levels

Doomed forgotten Realms was 24 sessions for 20 levels

Call from the Deep was 14 sessions for 12 levels.

Spelljammer adventure (can't remember name) 20 levels in 23 sessions.

Now, nothing has been said about how often they are playing or how long, but, of course the DM isn't adjusting. By the time he realizes there is an issue, the party has already moved on.

Once a week 4-hour sessions.

4. DM apparently has the tactical acumen of a concussed beaver.

I played a TON of high level 5E with the same DM and what I observed there was generally not the case in those 5E games. I am comparing my experience with 5E vs my experience with 2024 with the same DM and same player group in both.

How much high level gaming have you done with the 2024 rules, and how does it compare with the high level gaming you have done with 5E?

And, apparently, the takeaway from this is that there is a problem with the DMG? Seriously? There isn't the slightest possibility that the issue is largely self-inflicted?

Instead of criticizing others why don't you post your own experiences comparing the two?

 

[ECMO3]

And that’s where you totally lose me. How incompetent is your Dm that you are ending nearly every fight in one round? I’m sorry but this is just ridiculous. Most of your fights are one round and none go more than 2?

When your fighter alone regularly does over 200 points of damage in his turn (getting multiple crits with a Vicous weapon) and action surge, that is how.

You can criticize the DM if you want, but it is an experienced DM with a lot of experience in 5E. I'mm sure there will be a learning curve.

 

[Stalker0]

Well that is ok if you don't want any challanging fights. If you have a character that is inherently difficult to kill with damage and also virtually immune to mind control or other debilitating situations then you have a situation where you are not going to be able to challange that character.

Well sure, you do EVEN MOAR DAMAGE.

The fighter is a great all around character but the idea is they don't have any real tricks compared to a spell-caster. they just have to suck it up and take it. They can't throw an invincible forcefield around themself or teleport to another spot or heal themselves, etc.

 

[ECMO3]

Well sure, you do EVEN MOAR DAMAGE.

The fighter is a great all around character but the idea is they don't have any real tricks compared to a spell-caster. they just have to suck it up and take it. They can't throw an invincible forcefield around themself or teleport to another spot or heal themselves, etc.

This is not really the case any more. With Tactical Shift, Masteries, Remarkable Athlete and Tactical Master they now have quite a few tricks they can use.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Applied it to all potions and they can only be drank (or administered) as a bonus action (not as an action).

It did affect things, but it was not a big deal.

The rules on mixing potions were a bigger deal with people not wanting to drink potions of Healing while under the affect of another potion.

Interesting. I'm considering whether to use that rule, and that's making me lean towards at least giving it a try.

I'm not terribly interested in people carrying camel-backs full of healing potions to use all the time, but I'm very interested in seeing those potion miscibility rules potentially come up...

 

[Hussar]

Again I cannot even begin to understand how you achieve those paces. That’s just so far outside of my experience that I simply cannot imagine what your table looks like.

But sure your fighter is routinely doing 200 points of damage because every combat must start from fifteen feet away and nothing can fly.

Like I said, Occam’s razor applies here. What is more likely? That your group is typical of play, despite no one else getting results like this, or, this is a very idiosyncratic table with a dm who has zero sense of tactics?

I mean seriously. You keep going on about vicious weapons. Do no encounters start at range? No encounters feature lighting or sight line limitations? No monster is ever invisible or has any means of either mitigating damage or some sort of reaction teleport? Nothing has flyby attacks and the ability to move through walls?

I do not doubt that you are getting these results but these are results that absolutely no one else is getting. The only 20 level Spelljammer module I know of for 5e is Harvester of Worlds. That you played through that entire module in 20ish sessions leads me to believe that your table is ignoring a lot of tactical complexity.

So yeah. Extraordinary claims require considerable more proof than “well this is my anecdote.”