D&D (2024) Martial/Caster fix.

[mellored]

Fixing the martial / caster divide the easiest way i can think of. By removing some of the spell slots.

Also, bumping low levels slots slightly.


Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st 3 - - - - - - - -
2nd 5 - - - - - - - -
3rd 3 2 - - - - - - -
4th 2 3 - - - - - - -
5th 1 3 2 - - - - - -
6th 1 2 3 - - - - - -
7th 1 1 3 1 - - - - -
8th 1 1 3 2 - - - - -
9th 1 1 2 3 1 - - - -
10th 1 1 1 3 2 - - - -
11th 1 1 1 2 2 1 - - -
12th 2 1 1 2 2 1 - - -
13th 2 1 1 1 2 1 1 - -
14th 2 2 1 1 2 1 1 - -
15th 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 -
16th 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 -
17th 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
18th 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1
19th 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1
20th 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1

You now end with 14 slots instead of 22, plus your other features (arcane recovery). Letting you still do all the cool things, but less often.

Thought? Too much of a cut? Not enough?
What would your chart look like?

 

[Sorinth]

Why not just go with spell points and adjust the total number of spell points to fit the power curve you want? Having and then losing a bunch of spell slots doesn't seem like it would ever be popular, at least with SP it's a choice.

 

[Distracted DM]

Consider the way 13th Age does it? As you level up, get rid of the lower-level spell slots. You can dismiss the exact numbers on the table and just take the concept.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I would rather buff martial more. 5e has significantly fewer spell slots than previous editions.

A 3e caster could have 4-6x spell slots of all levels. Yes, they could cast multiple wishes/miracles each day. And a 3e sorcerer had more spells known than a 5e wizard can prepare.

Plus a good number of those spells upscaled automatically, usually providing a +2 level bonus over a 5e caster. The effectiveness of those upcast 3e spells is greater when you account for the hit point inflation in 5e.

Bring back Book of the 9 Swords. At the very least, give all Martials some battle master maneuvers as part of the base class. Fighters get the most, then barbarians & Rangers, with paladins getting a few.

Maybe you move Hunter's Mark into a ranger-specific maneuver. The mechanical difference isn't huge but it changes the flavor and separates it from purely magical effects like Pass Without Trace.

Let the "real" battlemaster have 12 superiority dice per short rest and know 10 maneuvers. Who cares if they use multiple dice per round against the BBEG. Let them be scary.

Maybe then more casters might use Concentration to maintain melee buff spells, to let those superiority dice explode. It's amazing how much extra damage Bless can generate when cast on three PCs with 3+ attacks per round. It almost always saves 1 attack each round. But at that point casters have usually stopped casting Bless and other low-level buffs because they stopped being effective in tier 2/3.

 

[Clint_L]

There's no problem, is my thought. I've been playing 5e for years, and martial classes are very effective. We have never had issues with players complaining or getting less time in the spotlight. Tier rankings consistently have martial and casters well represented at all levels. Actual play shows: same. Class selection on DDB: martial classes are overrepresented.

So I reject the underlying premise. There's no evidence that there's a problem.

Actually, check that: with the 2024 rules, martial classes are OP until high levels, when casters start to catch up through greater versatility. They probably need a nerf, not casters.

 

[Horwath]

I would rather make martials more interesting and powerful instead of making casters more boring to play.

less spell slots, more cantrip spamming.

 

[Horwath]

I would rather buff martial more. 5e has significantly fewer spell slots than previous editions.

A 3e caster could have 4-6x spell slots of all levels. Yes, they could cast multiple wishes/miracles each day. And a 3e sorcerer had more spells known than a 5e wizard can prepare.

Plus a good number of those spells upscaled automatically, usually providing a +2 level bonus over a 5e caster. The effectiveness of those upcast 3e spells is greater when you account for the hit point inflation in 5e.

Bring back Book of the 9 Swords. At the very least, give all Martials some battle master maneuvers as part of the base class. Fighters get the most, then barbarians & Rangers, with paladins getting a few.

Maybe you move Hunter's Mark into a ranger-specific maneuver. The mechanical difference isn't huge but it changes the flavor and separates it from purely magical effects like Pass Without Trace.

Let the "real" battlemaster have 12 superiority dice per short rest and know 10 maneuvers. Who cares if they use multiple dice per round against the BBEG. Let them be scary.

Maybe then more casters might use Concentration to maintain melee buff spells, to let those superiority dice explode. It's amazing how much extra damage Bless can generate when cast on three PCs with 3+ attacks per round. It almost always saves 1 attack each round. But at that point casters have usually stopped casting Bless and other low-level buffs because they stopped being effective in tier 2/3.

for martials:

drop weapon mastery, it's a good idea with not so good implementation.

Instead, you get equal number of battlemaster maneuvers.
you can perform a maneuver once per turn with a d6 dice for free.

battlemaster still gets more powerful dices and can burn then for nova damage.


and yes, 3.5e sorcerers never run out of spells.
with high charisma, and yes everyone at level 10+ had +6 cha items for sorcerers, you probably had 8 spell slots for levels 1-5.

 

[Corinnguard]

Bring back Book of the 9 Swords. At the very least, give all Martials some battle master maneuvers as part of the base class. Fighters get the most, then barbarians & Rangers, with paladins getting a few.

You could also borrow the Combat Traditions from Level Up. Each Combat Tradition is composed of 15 combat maneuvers scattered across 5 degrees (the martial equivalent of a spellcasting level) Every martial class (Adept, Berzerker, Fighter, Herald, Marshal, Ranger and Rogue) in Level Up is proficient in at least two Combat Traditions. Fighters gain a third Combat Tradition proficiency when they pick up a Fighter archetype at 3rd level.

Maybe you move Hunter's Mark into a ranger-specific maneuver. The mechanical difference isn't huge but it changes the flavor and separates it from purely magical effects like Pass Without Trace.

I could see Hunter's Mark being a stance manuever if there was a Ranger-specific Combat Tradtion.

 

[kigmatzomat]

There's no problem, is my thought. I've been playing 5e for years, and martial classes are very effective.

So I reject the underlying premise. There's no evidence that there's a problem.

I don't thinks martials are ineffective in 5e but they seem boring at many points. At every level, full casters get 1-2 notable new spells. Martials tend to hit stretches of "just more of the same".

 

[ezo]

Thought? Too much of a cut? Not enough?
What would your chart look like?

First, I think it is a bit amusing that with (yet another edition) people find a martial/caster divide again despite the changes.

But, I am not a fan of more slots, then fewer low-level slots, then getting them back, it seems odd. I get why you did it, just seems odd.

I would use one of the following spellcasting progressions:

The first has 9th-level spells at 17th, and grants no additional spell slots at levels 12,16 (ASI levels), nor at 19 (epic boon) and 20 (capstone feature).

The second table delays 7th, 8th, and 9th-level spells by 1 level each. This represents the additional time it takes to masters magic of such high level.

Both have 17 spells, so a bit more than your 14, but I would also reduce the number of prepared spells. Casters with few options aren't quite as powerful as well.