D&D (2024) Githzerai Psion? Thri-kreen Psion? Where's My Psion?

[LuisCarlos17f]

We can't forget players creating homemade versions of spells. For example a player wants to play a halfling monk "fist of Zuoken" with the power "jump" to kick taller enemies.

Some special rule could allow Charisma to give a bonus for mind-controll effects if there is a succesful persuassion check.

Other point is to use the sames schesm for other type of powers, for example a reboot of vestige pact, martial maneuvers or incarnum soulmelds. "Adventures in Rokugan" has got special "powers" with a different system of reload.

* Other reason for the return of psionic is because this can create "mindscapes". Let's imagine we mix Evil Within, SCP, creepypasta, the infinite staircase(D&D) and Duskmourn. Psionic powers mixed with madness could create true nightmares.

 

[WanderingMystic]

The problem is that, like spell casting there is not one clear defined state used in all tropes.
Telepaths: int (Xavier, the leader)
Telekinesis: usually more wise or charisma since it is usually tied to emotion control. (Carrie, firestarter,)
Psycho metabolic: honestly con or wis.

The most common thing about psionics is that it is not something you learn while you can train yourself to get better you have to be born or experimented on. It is always a show of will power which to me is more wise, con, or cha than int.

 

[Maxperson]

Anyone know why possession isn't a condition in 5e?

I would guess that it's because the nature of the possession will vary from creature to creature. It's not uniform enough to be a condition.

 

[Epic Meepo]

The debate about what ability score psions should use is an interesting aside, but it's actually a moot point. As the OP observed, psions already exist in the 2025 Monster Manual. Both examples are Int-based spellcasters who cast spells with no spell components. The question being raised in the OP is why monsters can be psions but not PCs. The basic framework of what a psion is in 5e (an Int-based, no-component spellcaster) has already been established in the latest version of core rules.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Languages for a start. In 1st edition a high intelligence let you learn a load of extra languages. In 3rd edition, characters with a low intelligence were illiterate. Now language learning and literacy are completely divorced from intelligence.

Not completely. The Linguist feat increases your Intelligence by 1, not your Charisma. Further, it associates learning languages with decoding things, which is pretty clearly an exercise of one's "mental muscles", not how compelling one is.

Religious knowledge. There were no knowledge based skills in is edition. In 3e, religious knowledge was tied to wisdom, in 5e its keyed to intelligence (because it's book learning).

Er...no. You are misremembering. Religion as an independent skill didn't exist in 3e, that was a 4e thing. Instead, it was a subset of the Knowledge skill...and Knowledge was always Intelligence in 3e (whether 3.0, 3.5, or PF1e.) I have just confirmed this by checking online versions of both the 3.0 and 3.5 SRD. The Religion skill in both 4e and 5e is also Int-based.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

View attachment 396474
If this guy is anything to go by, it’s snark.

Except that Alfred Bester isn't particularly charismatic at all. He's refined, certainly, but he's actively and intentionally abrasive to most of the people he meets, with an air of smug superiority rather than being compelling. In most cases where he gets what he wants, it's because he backed someone into a corner (e.g. Lyta being allowed to pretend to be a Corps telepath), or because he's already got friends, or more commonly blackmail, in high places (e.g. Psy Corps is in bed with Night Watch and President Clark), or because he literally had someone's personality modified to be his perfect traitor puppet.

Instead, Bester is a chessmaster. He plans three or four steps ahead. He doesn't compel people; he coerces them. If I were expressing this in 5.5e terms, he has expertise in Intimidate and perhaps an Origin Feat which includes allowing him to substitute Intelligence in place of his Charisma modifier for Intimidate checks. It is his ruthless, devious intelligence that makes him both feared and dangerous (well, that and being a P12; telepaths from P8-P9 and up can implant thoughts or directly induce behavior in "mundanes", so they don't really need to be charismatic to make people do what they want them to do.)

Likewise, there's another character whose telepathic power was transformed via experimentation, Matthew Stoner. He ceased to have most typical telepathic abilities, and instead developed "empath" abilities, allowing him to mold and shape others' minds subtly, rather than the "brute force" manipulations of strong telepaths. Unlike Bester, Stoner is shown to be at least somewhat charismatic, but his charisma still seems secondary to cleverness and subtlety when it comes to manipulating people.

Also, another example of psychic powers, albeit under other names? Dune. Melange specifically grants prescience, and I'm pretty sure both the books and the films make reference to either "psychic" or "psionic" abilities at some point. Certainly, "the stuff Bene Gesserit and Paul Atreides do" is not going to be a difficult sell for current-day teens and twenty-somethings.

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Now, all that said? I could see psionic powers perhaps working differently from spells in part by not having a single consistent base stat, but rather having different stats for different purposes. E.g., let's say we have the following psionic "disciplines", each with its own core stat:

Kinesis (Int)
Mesmerism (Cha)
Cryptaesthesia (Wis)
Psychomorphosis (Con)

Different abilities would fall under different disciplines. Thus, the Psion does not really have a "core stat". You have to specialize, or select powers that don't strongly depend on the relevant stat. Kinesis is physical offense and manipulation, e.g. pyrokinesis, levitation, technopathy if relevant, Bloodbending-like body manipulation, etc. Mesmerism is psychic powers used to beguile, confuse, or control minds, thoughts, or perceptions in other beings (or yourself) and to defend yourself against such things. Cryptaesthesia is clairvoyance (and all the related things), remote viewing, prescience, "mind palace" stuff, etc. Psychomorphosis is the use of psychic powers to modify or manipulate bodily processes, the link between mind/soul and body, and giving inanimate things "life" in some form, but might also include teleportation (it could go here or Kinesis, sorta depends on how it's interpreted).

This would recognize the important place Intelligence has always had for psionics, while still recognizing your point that a strict relationship between mere IQ (already a dodgy thing on its own) and "mental muscle" is fraught and probably outdated. The "Kineticist" type of psionicist would focus on Kinesis and Psychomorphosis, while the turn of the century "Medium"/"Spiritualist"/etc. would focus on Mesmerism and Cryptaesthesia.

From there, you could design subclasses that emphasize specific stats and/or disciplines, in order to evoke a particular era's view of the paranormal/psychic/etc., or to give representation to a particular work's take on psionics, etc. A "Mystic" that focuses on Cryptaesthesia and Psychomorphosis, being akin to the Oracle at Delphi? A "Hypnotist" focusing on control and (mental) support effects in Cryptaesthesia and Mesmerism? A "Paranormal Investigator", perhaps, that focuses on the application of psionics to skills? I'm sure we could come up with more concepts, and that's without digging into past editions to see if we find any nice stuff.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The debate about what ability score psions should use is an interesting aside, but it's actually a moot point. As the OP observed, psions already exist in the 2025 Monster Manual. Both examples are Int-based spellcasters who cast spells with no spell components. The question being raised in the OP is why monsters can be psions but not PCs. The basic framework of what a psion is in 5e (an Int-based, no-component spellcaster) has already been established in the latest version of core rules.

Well, I certainly hope they don't make them "Just another spellcaster" because God in Heaven, I'm so bloody sick of every possible form of supernatural power being confined to the spellcasting box.

 

[Corinnguard]

Different abilities would fall under different disciplines. Thus, the Psion does not really have a "core stat". You have to specialize, or select powers that don't strongly depend on the relevant stat. Kinesis is physical offense and manipulation, e.g. pyrokinesis, levitation, technopathy if relevant, Bloodbending-like body manipulation, etc. Mesmerism is psychic powers used to beguile, confuse, or control minds, thoughts, or perceptions in other beings (or yourself) and to defend yourself against such things. Cryptaesthesia is clairvoyance (and all the related things), remote viewing, prescience, "mind palace" stuff, etc. Psychomorphosis is the use of psychic powers to modify or manipulate bodily processes, the link between mind/soul and body, and giving inanimate things "life" in some form, but might also include teleportation (it could go here or Kinesis, sorta depends on how it's interpreted).

PF1's Occult classes could probably be converted into subclasses for the 5e Psion.

PF1 Occult classes:

* Kineticist- With a connection to the elements, a kineticist can bring forth energy in the form of kinetic blasts. Instead of casting psychic spells, the kineticist uses unique psychic spell-like abilities called wild talents to manipulate elemental energy and matter.

• Medium- By contacting spirits in places of power, the medium allows the personalities of legendary heroes to overcome his own, vastly changing his abilities and spells. He holds seances to benefit himself and his allies.
• Mesmerist- A mesmerist’s piercing stare lets him insinuate himself into other people’s minds. A master of enchantment and illusion, the mesmerist controls and influences the behavior of others.
• Occultist- To make use of his powers, an occultist channels psychic energy into a varied collection of antiques and mementos with storied pasts. Every type of implement allows him to use a different school of magic.
• Psychic- With her incredibly potent mind, the psychic can cast spells that are more powerful than those of members of any other occult class. She accesses these spells through a specific discipline and can bend and amplify psychic spells as she casts them.

*Spiritualist- Attuned to the spirits of the dead, a spiritualist forms a bond with a phantom—a returned spirit that has unfinished business but did not become undead. This spectral ally can alternate between forms, emerging from the safety of the spiritualist’s mind to take on an incorporeal form or an ectoplasmic body.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Ruvik from "Evil Within" is a good example of how a psion can be a formidable enemy.

My suggestion is to create, not a true setting but a zone where psionic powers aren't totally necessary but a better option. Do you remember the transitive plane "the infinite staircase"? Let's mix this with the plane of the mirrors, with a touch of the kami war (Magic the Gathering, Kamigawa), Duskmourn and the mythology of the backrooms, creepypasta and SCP, and the dungeons from "the Evil Within".

There is a great difference between the archetypes used in the fiction and the players wanted to play with. Most of players would rather a PC like Wolfbane (X-Men) than professor Charles Xavier.

A telepath in "Game of Thrones" could break the power balance but in a survival horro videogame the player would rather powers more focused toward stealth. Telepathy could be very effective against certain enemies, but not against mindless creatures like plants, constructs or undead.

 

[Mecheon]

Specific examples. Which comic book psychics are more powerful because of book smarts? Because I can think of some powerful comic book psychics who are not so good in the thinking department.

This annoyed me enough after the provided examples that, no, you're not escaping. We're dragging out some specific pokemon that note their intellect in terms of being why they have psychic potential

Alakazam: Its brain can out-perform a super computer. Its IQ is said to be over 5,000
Slowking: Shellder injects venom into its head that increases its intelligence and enpowered its psychic powers
Metagross: With its four brains it is more powerful than a supercomputer (also worth noting Metagross is part of the 600 stat total club, the pseudo-legendaries, so is in the second tier of pokemon just under, y'know. The various gods and ancient being types)
Orbeetle: It's famous for its high level of intelligence, and the large size of its brain is proof that it also possesses immense psychic power.

Psychic powers are very much established with being linked to intelligence if Pokemon is specifically using that as a thing.