D&D (2024) Thoughts on Stealth and D&D2024

[Sorinth]

Correct. (To be clear I don't agree with that, but in lack of a rule on Facing... any ruling a DM decides is a house-rule. I wish WotC had included on, or at least the option like in 2014...)


You can think I'm wrong, certainly, but I don't. RAW are not at the DM's discretion--they are, in fact, written. Choosing to use them or not, modify them, or make up there own is at the DM's discretion of course! And one DM might judge one way, while another might judge completely differently.


Yes, this has been mentioned in 2014, but sadly did not find its way into 2024 for the people who are new to the game and will be using these rules for several years to come.

Obviously what's good/fun for someone isn't the same for someone else and there's no right/wrong because it's all subjective. But having said that I just can't buy the argument that equates DM discretion with house rules, DMs are asked to make judgement calls by RAW. Stealth by in large falls into that category, for example in the PHB it says "The Dungeon Master decides when circumstances are approriate for hiding." So by RAW it's the DM just decides whether you can or can't try to hide. It's fair to not like that and prefer more clearly defined rules on when it's possible to hide, but the DM making a call isn't a house rule, it's the RAW text.

Rules, whether house rules or clearly specified rules in the books, are more often then not there to provide consistency. Which is a good thing in many instances, but can also limit creative play which is a bad thing.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

And not all of us have access to a physical copy.
It is in the rules glossary in the hide action of the 24 PHB. The topic of discussion for the last severl pages.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

A rule that defines what direction a creature is facing

Posts 359 and 382 should get you there depending on the form your PHB is in.

As to the direction the creature is facing only the player/Dm controlling it would know.

 

[KYRON45]

And not all of us have access to a physical copy.
It is in the rules glossary in the hide action. The topic of discussion for the last severl pages.

So you are citing the "Hide Action" and not a rule labeled "facing"?
It's the middle of the work day where I am and i don't carry game reference books around with me (i don't even bring the DMG to games) so you'll have to excuse me for that.
A creature has a 360 field of view and anything it can see in that view is line of sight. It is not facing any of those things until it interacts with any of them. So none of those things can sneak up "behind" them. You don't need to be "behind" something to sneak attack it. You also don't need to be between something for it to be flanked. You just need to be adjacent ie. near.

Since specific beats general in all rules, there would need to be a specific rule for "facing" to override any of the general rules for what you can see and how that is affected by line of sight.

If you want to be right, then you are. Most of us are just stating the facts as they are written.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

So you are citing the "Hide Action" and not a rule labeled "facing"?
It's the middle of the work day where I am and i don't carry game reference books around with me (i don't even bring the DMG to games) so you'll have to excuse me for that.
A creature has a 360 field of view and anything it can see in that view is line of sight. It is not facing any of those things until it interacts with any of them. So none of those things can sneak up "behind" them. You don't need to be "behind" something to sneak attack it. You also don't need to be between something for it to be flanked. You just need to be adjacent ie. near.

Since specific beats general in all rules, there would need to be a specific rule for "facing" to override any of the general rules for what you can see and how that is affected by line of sight.

If you want to be right, then you are. Most of us are just stating the facts as they are written.

First as it has been stated several times there are no rules name or called facing in the 24 books.

Second the Hide action is a rule, and it is the most specific rule about facing. So unless a more specific rule about facing can be produced there you go.

Where in the rules is the "A creature has a 360 field of view and anything it can see in that view is line of sight. It is not facing any of those things until it interacts with any of them. So none of those things can sneak up "behind" them." located? Book and page, or a link please.

 

[Charlaquin]

Posts 359 and 382 should get you there depending on the form your PHB is in.

If you’re just going to refer me back to your earlier post, then I’m just going to refer you back to my earlier post responding to it that you ignored.

D&D (2024) Post in thread 'Thoughts on Stealth and D&D2024'

Feb 18, 2025

HERE
"With the Hide action, you try to conceal yourself. To do so, you must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity (Stealth) check while you’re Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover, and you must be out of any enemy’s line of sight; if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you."

That doesn’t say anything about facing…

If there is no facing, how can "if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you."
If there is no facing the when you can see them the they can see you.

Yes, correct.

...

• Charlaquin

• 

 

[KYRON45]

First as it has been stated several times there are no rules name or called facing in the 24 books.

Second the Hide action is a rule, and it is the most specific rule about facing. So unless a more specific rule about facing can be produced there you go.

Where in the rules is the "A creature has a 360 field of view and anything it can see in that view is line of sight. It is not facing any of those things until it interacts with any of them. So none of those things can sneak up "behind" them." located? Book and page, or a link please.

Once again. I do not have rules books with me or memorized.
Read the rules for sneak attack and flanking. Neither if them use the words facing or behind.
Since in all cases specific overrides general there would need to be a specific rule regarding front/back/side facings and there is not.
If you are interpreting things to mean there are rules for facing then by all means, play the way you like.

Now since i can't tell if you are trolling or not i am going to bow out of this conversation.
I hope you argue your way to clarity and wish you well in all your gaming endeavors.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

If you’re just going to refer me back to your earlier post, then I’m just going to refer you back to my earlier post responding to it that you ignored.

D&D (2024) Post in thread 'Thoughts on Stealth and D&D2024'

Feb 18, 2025

HERE
"With the Hide action, you try to conceal yourself. To do so, you must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity (Stealth) check while you’re Heavily Obscured or behind Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover, and you must be out of any enemy’s line of sight; if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you."

That doesn’t say anything about facing…

If there is no facing, how can "if you can see a creature, you can discern whether it can see you."
If there is no facing the when you can see them the they can see you.

Yes, correct.

...

• Charlaquin

• 

How in the wild wild world of sports are the rules supposed to know what direction and creature in the game is facing? To find out you would need line of sight to determine which would in most cases require whomever is in control of that creature to tell you.

Unless the creature has blindsight, tremor sight, or true ssight it can only see what is in it's cone of view in the direction it is facing. Only the player in control of that creature can know this and share it in most cases that it matters such as a creature trying to hide from it.

 

[KYRON45]

How in the wild wild world of sports are the rules supposed to know what direction and creature in the game is facing? To find out you would need line of sight to determine which would in most cases require whomever is in control of that creature to tell you.

Unless the creature has blindsight, tremor sight, or true ssight it can only see what is in it's cone of view in the direction it is facing. Only the player in control of that creature can know this and share it in most cases that it matters such as a creature trying to hide from it.

The rules don't know what direction you are facing. That's why there are no rules for facing.
Now for real...i am out.

 

[Selas]

I guess I will need the definition you are using for facing.

Here. Mind you, this is not the complete rules, but just enough to state my point:

Facing
DMG'14, p252
If you want the precision of knowing which way a creature is facing, consider using this optional rule. Whenever a creature ends its move, it can change its facing. Each creature has a front arc (the direction it faces), left and right side arcs, and a rear arc. A creature can also change its facing as a reaction when any other creature moves.

A creature can normally target only creatures in its front or side arcs. It can't see into its rear arc. This means an attacker in the creature's rear arc makes attack rolls against it with advantage.

This is not in 2024, and you can't claim that a blurb in the Hide action means this. So no, what you posted is not facing rules