D&D (2024) Youre All Wrong. Its Not A Martial vs Caster Situation

[ECMO3]

Given that 1e fighters likely had plenty of magic bonuses to their saves (from magic armour or rings), that 20th level fighter was probably only failing on a roll of 1.

Most of the time a 20th level fighter in 2024 will succeed on a 1. With indomitable, a 1 on the die is a 21 then you add proficiency, ability bonus or any magic item or spell buffs.

With Mage Slayer, Indomitable and Heroic Warrior, I don't think the fighter in the campaign I just finished failed a single save that mattered past 15th level.

 

[cbwjm]

Most of the time a 20th level fighter in 2024 will succeed on a 1. With indomitable, a 1 on the die is a 21 then you add proficiency, ability bonus or any magic item or spell buffs.

With Mage Slayer, Indomitable and Heroic Warrior, I don't think the fighter in the campaign I just finished failed a single save that mattered past 15th level.

That sounds cool as it made the fighter someone to be feared as they're literally indomitable. Fits with the super heroics of 5e.

 

[Zardnaar]

I've been arguing for better fighter saves since about 2007.

Monsters as well.

Incentive for spellcasters to deal danage and make combat last longer. Or debuff to land the spells.

Paladins can grant +5 to everyone near them Monks end up proficient in all saves.

 

[cbwjm]

I've been arguing for better fighter saves since about 2007.

Monsters as well.

Incentive for spellcasters to deal danage and make combat last longer. Or debuff to land the spells.

Paladins can grant +5 to everyone near them Monks end up proficient in all saves.

Yeah, I've always felt that if you have a paladin on your team, you're making the save. Positioning can affect that but if you're in the aura, you'll be fine.

 

[ECMO3]

That sounds cool as it made the fighter someone to be feared as they're literally indomitable. Fits with the super heroics of 5e.

Our experience wasn't so great. I think everyone at the table prefered the game experience with te 2014 fighter. YMMV

The guy we who played the fighter in the first 2024 campaign disliked it so much he is playing a Wizard in the next game. He has previously played a Fighter, Paladin or Barbarian in every campaign we did in 5E before trying 2024 and generally enjoys that type of character.

We don't have a fighter in the next campaign.

 

[ECMO3]

Paladins can grant +5 to everyone near them Monks end up proficient in all saves.

At high level the fighters indomitable blows away the Paladin Aura and the Monk proficiency. Those are reasonable, indomitable is not. +20 is a lot more than +6 and if you have a Paladin with a 22 Charimsa in the party in the party the Fighter is rocking a +26. Is there any save that high in the entire MM?

I think in the games I DM I am going to revert indomitable and Mage Slayer to the 2014 version (with mage slayer giving a +1 ability). I will also make heroic warrior limited use (PB per day), limit action surge to 2 attacks instead of a full 3 or 4 and make tactical mind once a day maximum and it is still used up if you fail it. I think that would address all the issues we had with the Fighter.

 

[Zardnaar]

At high level the fighters indomitable blows away the Paladin Aura and the Monk proficiency. Those are reasonable, indomitable is not. +20 is a lot more than +6 and if you have a Paladin with a 22 Charimsa in the party in the party the Fighter is rocking a +26. Is there any save that high in the entire MM?

I think in the games I DM I am going to revert indomitable and Mage Slayer to the 2014 version (with mage slayer giving a +1 ability). I will also make heroic warrior limited use (PB per day), limit action surge to 2 attacks instead of a full 3 or 4 and make tactical mind once a day maximum and it is still used up if you fail it. I think that would address all the issues we had with the Fighter.

That's kinda the point. Fighters used to be able to shrug off save or suck unless they roll garbage.

 

[ECMO3]

That's kinda the point. Fighters used to be able to shrug off save or suck unless they roll garbage.

I would have no problem with that. The problem I have is they can shrug it off even if they roll garbage. They can shrug it off even if they roll garbage twice in a row. Why bother rolling at all? Just give them legendary resistance.

It may be the point but it was not fun in our game, YMMV

 

[Zardnaar]

I would have no problem with that. The problem I have is they can shrug it off even if they roll garbage. They can shrug it off even if they roll garbage twice in a row. Why bother rolling at all? Just give them legendary resistance.

It may be the point but it was not fun in our game, YMMV

Well better numbers can make fighters great.

 

[FrogReaver]

Indomitable is at most a 3x per long rest ability.

Fighter saves for most abilities are so garbage by this stage of the game that they are going to fail most any of them that target something other than str/dex or con. Even with Resilient Wisdom they are still failing half or more wisdom saves against powerful creatures and that's only for wisdom saves.

I think the bigger problem was the super easy encounters, leading to much less threat overall.