D&D General Why grognards still matter

[Ruin Explorer]

What I observe are several posters insisting I'm saying something that I didn't actually say, something akin to grognard entitlement, or "grognards matter more." I have no idea if there is common cause and goals, but there are similar patterns: like a marginalization of older players (for whatever reason) and/or false assumptions about what I actually meant.

You're literally manufacturing tribalism from your own perceptions whilst blaming other people's allegedly-faulty perceptions for anything they say.

The tribalism is calling from inside the house!

Now I'm actually a bit confused about what you think I'm arguing, as it seems that you know more about what I was arguing than I do.

Wait so you want to run "My argument was perfectly clear, you're a bad person for misperceiving it!" and "Don't act like you or anyone but me knows what my argument was!" concurrently? Bold.

Either way I feel like I've made my point. Us grogs matter as much as we matter. 12.5% or w/e - to WotC and D&D that is. We probably matter more to 5E-related 3PPs.

 

[Mercurius]

You're literally manufacturing tribalism from your own perceptions whilst blaming other people's allegedly-faulty perceptions for anything they say.

The tribalism is calling from inside the house!


Wait so you want to run "My argument was perfectly clear, you're a bad person for misperceiving it!" and "Don't act like you or anyone but me knows what my argument was!" concurrently? Bold.

Not really, but I can see we're not getting anywhere.

Either way I feel like I've made my point. Us grogs matter as much as we matter. 12.5% or w/e - to WotC and D&D that is. We probably matter more to 5E-related 3PPs.

OK, Boomer

 

[rhythmsoundmotion]

I have to wonder if:
-The material that’s used for examples or teaching is targeted towards learners and new players which probably are overwhelmingly 15-25.
-Where the material that’s used to support play in published settings and home-brew settings is targeted carefully across the age groups.

But, it’s easy to identify all of the product as the same as the example or teaching focused material because it is most narratively focused.

 

[nevin]

LOL no.

Absolutely not. That's awful business-think misunderstanding of the Pareto Principle. Plus you literally changed the numbers!

Pareto principle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Further, even in business management, it's a strictly business and client principle, not a business and customer principle, and the fact that you're using it as business and customer and changing the numbers from 80/20 to 90/10 is pretty wild. That's like, even accepting it being misused/misunderstood, you're misusing it and misunderstanding it further. I think maybe you or whoever taught that to you confused it with whale-based approaches.

while yes I did get the numbers wrong it's not just a business client principle.

since you are confused I'll send you a link to forbes to set you straight as you've already decided I don't know what I'm talking about. But it's used in healthcare outcomes, distribution centers for inventory and lot's of places.

Pareto Principle: How To Use It To Dramatically Grow Your Business

Learn the exponential power of the Pareto Principle.

www.forbes.com

The Pareto Principle is very simple, yet very important. It is named after Italian economist Vilfredo Pareto, who, in 1906, found that 80% of the land in Italy was owned by 20% of the population.

What was most important about Pareto’s finding was that this 80/20 distribution occurs extremely frequently. For example, in general, 20% of your customers represent 80% of your sales. And 20% of your time produces 80% of your results. And so on.

PROMOTED

 

[nevin]

Council Post: The 80/20 Rule Is Brutal. That’s Why It Works

The customer is king, you tell yourself. Well, no, not every customer.

www.forbes.com

 

[nevin]

Pithy, but you're misunderstanding the application of that principle.

You don't respond to "show me who the people buying books are" with "cater to the people buying books". The question being asked is WHO are those people. You haven't answered that.

the white whales who have the money. The argument that middle aged and older gamers who have more disposable income has been part of the whole thread. Proven it's them no. weight of proof I'd think would be on proving the young people who are most likely to have less money are the ones who matter more. But my position might not be yours.

and no I'm not misunderstanding that principle. it works for land. 20 percent of the land holds 80 percent of the people in the world. 20 percent of most companies products generate 80 percent of thier revenue. 20 percent of your activities in most studies generate 80 percent of your results. 20 percent of your customers generally generate 80 percent of your revenues. It's a very Broad principle that even works in healthcare outcomes. 20 percent of the Efforts in Healthcare generate 80 percent of the solutions. People have been trying to prove Pareto wrong since 1906 and instead the principle just keeps being observed more and more broadly and being incorporated into planning by smart businesses more and more.

 

[Parmandur]

the white whales who have the money. The argument that middle aged and older gamers who have more disposable income has been part of the whole thread. Proven it's them no. weight of proof I'd think would be on proving the young people who are most likely to have less money are the ones who matter more. But my position might not be yours.

Having more or less money is not terribly relevant to the question for a low-coat hobby like D&D.

 

[nevin]

Having more or less money is not terribly relevant to the question for a low-coat hobby like D&D.

people who have more disposable income spend more of it on hobbies. I think we can at least agree on that. I remember spending 6 months saving for my first players handbook. I don't wait for stuff like that now if I want it for my hobby be it figures, maps, books etc I just go buy it. I think it's more relevant than you think. But at this point without data simply opinion.

 

[Parmandur]

people who have more disposable income spend more of it on hobbies. I think we can at least agree on that. I remember spending 6 months saving for my first players handbook. I don't wait for stuff like that now if I want it for my hobby be it figures, maps, books etc I just go buy it. I think it's more relevant than you think. But at this point without data simply opinion.

Not necessarily, someone upthread provided evidence that suggested people stop spending as much on their hobbies as they get older, on average. That makes sense: older folks with larger incomes also have more bills and responsibilities than teenagers with basic jobs living with their parents.

A teenager flipping burgers makes enough money in a Summer week to buy an entire year of D&D products.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

while yes I did get the numbers wrong it's not just a business client principle.

since you are confused I'll send you a link to forbes to set you straight as you've already decided I don't know what I'm talking about. But it's used in healthcare outcomes, distribution centers for inventory and lot's of places.

Pareto Principle: How To Use It To Dramatically Grow Your Business

Learn the exponential power of the Pareto Principle.

www.forbes.com

The Pareto Principle is very simple, yet very important. It is named after Italian economist Vilfredo Pareto, who, in 1906, found that 80% of the land in Italy was owned by 20% of the population.

What was most important about Pareto’s finding was that this 80/20 distribution occurs extremely frequently. For example, in general, 20% of your customers represent 80% of your sales. And 20% of your time produces 80% of your results. And so on.

PROMOTED

I don't know why you have an all-caps "PROMOTED" at the bottom of your post, that's a bit weird.

But that aside, my point remains - it's not typically used in businesses like WotC, because it's not reliably true in anything where you're selling goods to normal "civilian" customers, whatever poorly written Forbes articles say.