D&D 5E Why Do Higher Levels Get Less Play?

[Minigiant]

5e's problem is that it doesn't teach new DMs how to run high level. It gives them the tools, but leaves the instructions for those tools out of the books and then wonders why new DMs are metaphorically cutting off their own limbs and the limbs of their players

No.

The problem is 5e was written for a customer base that isn't it's actual customer base.

It provides tools and has a base system for high level that the people who do play don't want.

High level 5e was designed for half drunk, beer and pretzels, no serious derp play.

 

[MGibster]

I very much agree with this. Maybe we will get a DMG2 for 2024D&D and they can address it.

If you were running a business, how much effort would you put into producing something only 10% of your customers seemed interested in? I'd probably concentrate my efforts into something the other 90% might be more likely to purchase.

 

[Minigiant]

If you were running a business, how much effort would you put into producing something only 10% of your customers seemed interested in? I'd probably concentrate my efforts into something the other 90% might be more likely to purchase.

Again

Is it that only 10% of your customer base want it?
OR
Has your product always been so significantly off the mark that only 10% of your customer base is willing to deal with it?

D&D fans like the Monk class but not until recently has the Monk class been any good. The D&D monk was a notorious stinker. So it tended to have low amount of play.

The D&D Druid is the least played class because it's too complicated not because people don't like the idea.

 

[Reynard]

If you were running a business, how much effort would you put into producing something only 10% of your customers seemed interested in? I'd probably concentrate my efforts into something the other 90% might be more likely to purchase.

I might be inclined to actually generate some interest, knowing that what i do in the space is what defines the industry and that most of my customers will buy the things I produce.

I'll say it again since folks seem to have trouble understanding: High level D&D, especially for 5E, is "not played" because WotC does not support it or try and make it viable. if they did, things would turn around in an instant.

 

[cranberry]

The mechanics have always leaned in favor of the PCs, but at higher levels that power gap is quite noticeable, and being able to easily curb stomp powerful monsters becomes anti-climatic.

 

[MGibster]

I might be inclined to actually generate some interest, knowing that what i do in the space is what defines the industry and that most of my customers will buy the things I produce.

You might be. I'm a bit more averse to risk and would rather put my resources into an area I know my customers are interest in.

Is it that only 10% of your customer base want it?
OR
Has your product always been so significantly off the mark that only 10% of your customer base is willing to deal with it?

How does WotC know the difference? I'm not even sure if it really matters that much. What they know is only 10% of their customers make use of the higher levels. Personally, I think the way D&D is set up that the game just becomes less fun when you reach those higher levels. I believe that's the primary reason why so few people play past level 10.

 

[Maxperson]

No.

The problem is 5e was written for a customer base that isn't it's actual customer base.

That's simply untrue. 20 million D&D players and the overwhelming majority of them are young. 5e was designed much more for them than for my generation.

It provides tools and has a base system for high level that the people who do play don't want.

And this is completely unproven. None of the new players have ever had working tools. What you are saying is the equivalent of, "Hey, they gave a bunch of people cars that won't move and they didn't like them, so clearly that proves that those people don't want cars."

They have no idea how many of the 20 million would actually play high level if it was well supported.

 

[Minigiant]

How does WotC know the difference? I'm not even sure if it really matters that much. What they know is only 10% of their customers make use of the higher levels. Personally, I think the way D&D is set up that the game just becomes less fun when you reach those higher levels. I believe that's the primary reason why so few people play past level 10

They know the difference The problem is just like we so what 4E fixing it requires major changes to the mentality of the game aesthetics, mechanics, and philosophy.

Basically fans want to high level barbarian to be the hulk.

Making the high level barbarian into the hulk in D&D would be such a drastic mechanical change and shift philosophy that it would not only require an entire addition change It will require convincing the community to agree to some mechanical and visual changes.

Like encumbrance would have to start mattering. You won't be able to skip encumbrance anymore. The formula for encumbrance would have to be not simple anymore.

 

[Minigiant]

That's simply untrue. 20 million D&D players and the overwhelming majority of them are young. 5e was designed much more for them than for my generation

A good third of 5e players did not even know it existed when it was in playtest nor did they have job to have any purchasing power.

5e was 100% not designed for its current customer base.

Mike Mearls literally said. And many other 5e designers said it too. it It was designed for 3e Pathfinder, 2e, and first edition players. 5e was designed to get back old fans.

The current started playing it and liking it. But it was not made for them.

 

[Nebulous]

I find balancing fights to be interesting are so much harder when the PCs are demi-gods. Even by 10th level I am pretty much done with D&D. It becomes more "work" than I enjoy doing. At lower levels I can eyeball a battle on the fly and it will work out. Not so with 15th level PCs.