D&D General No One Reads Conan Now -- So What Are They Reading?

[TiQuinn]

My players are way more like Fafhrd and Gray Mouser... than Conan.

Often too confident but mostly compotent scoundrels that always hatch plans that lead to over the top hijinks ensuing.

This. Almost every game of D&D I’ve ever played in, the party felt more a bunch of screw-ups who manage to be heroes rather than epic badasses.

 

[Clint_L]

One change that I've noticed over the decades is that there is a lot more literary writing in fantasy. When I was a kid, most fantasy was written at a pretty pulpy level - it was an increasingly profitable but not very serious genre. Much of the published work was very much of a potboiler nature. Predictable characters, predictable plots, little by way of theme and growth. Fun but essentially disposable reading. TSR made mint off that stuff, for example.

Now there are a lot more writers who take fantasy seriously, and consequently we get many more works that are richer in literary merit. There are still plenty of lowbrow options, and sometimes that's just what I'm in the mood for (hello, Dungeon Crawler Carl), but it's good to have more range and more ideas to explore.

 

[overgeeked]

I'm still interested to hear about Dungeon Crawler Carl, if anyone can give their thoughts on it. Someone likened it to Discworld and that got me a little curious.

It’s funny. And it’s a bit of biting satire on occasion. That’s the only point of contact between the two. I’ve read the first and keep inching closer to reading the second but haven’t as yet. It’s LitRPG. So the character is aware he’s in a game and can view his stats, has an inventory that he exploits, and, as the name suggests, it’s a dungeon crawler. The best way I can put it is it’s hilariously violent and violently hilarious. The first one is setup in a chapter then dive into the dungeon. It’s got great characters but it’s all about the action. What little plot there is is about as paper thin as most megadungeons. Clear the room, loot the bodies, kick in the door. Lather, rinse, repeat. There were hints and foreshadowing and a scene or two about a larger plot as the series progresses, but not so much in the first one.

If people are looking for dedicated book talk, there’s a series of threads in Geek that’s been going for a few years. Here’s the latest:

Thread 'What are you reading in 2025?'

Jan 1, 2025

I've been on a bit of a manga / manhwa kick lately. I've gone through all the existing English-translated volumes of The Eminence in Shadow, Solo Leveling, and the first 5 of Dandadan (with the rest of the way).

For novels, I'm kinda on a old-school / classic kick. Just finished 3001: The Final Odyssey by Arthur C Clarke which was pretty unremarkable. Just started Aftermath, book 7 of the original Thieves' World series. On deck is Sliding Scales, book 9 in the Adventures of Pip and Flinx series by Alan Dean Foster.

For RPG books, I'm currently...

• Elodan
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• Forum: *Geek Talk & Media

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[Clint_L]

This. Almost every game of D&D I’ve ever played in, the party felt more a bunch of screw-ups who manage to be heroes rather than epic badasses.

This, except my players can only dream of attaining Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser levels of competence, let alone Conan.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

No there is no game. The author is creating the system, as background, that governs certain aspects of the setting in the novels.

It's just a premise which uses the conventions of RPGs with science-fiction and fantasy novels.

In this case, the main character is transported to a world which has a lot of magic, and his personal system for organizing the magic he obtains functions similar to a role playing game. It informs him of him gaining experience points, levels, the function of his abilities like rules, the upgrades for such abilities, magic items, etc.. And as the characters grow in experience, and therefore levels and abilities, they seek out more challenging monsters to fight.

It's odd at first but once you get used to it, it's fun. Also the authors voice is somewhat silly, sarcastic, and lyrical.

Example:

"Jason squinted at the translucent interface hovering before him, his mind racing through the complex calculations. His 'Shadow Magic' skill was nearing level 10, granting him the ability to create a more substantial, shadowy doppelganger, but the mana cost was significant. He had to choose carefully; use it now to ambush the approaching pack of Dire Wolves, or save it for the inevitable boss fight lurking deeper within the dungeon."

From a review I read of the books, "HE WHO FIGHTS WITH MONSTERS by Shirtaloon is the archetypal LitRPG story. It is the story of a geeky young man being transported who dies in a sort of accident and gets deposited inside a fantasy world that operates on the rules of a tabletop RPG. From there, he begins an extended campaign to level up his abilities, accumulate treasure, and stick it to every authority figure while making pop culture references that his fantasy companions are deeply confused by. That description will more or less tell you if you are the target audience of HWFWM or not."

Ah, thanks for the info. Fiction where it acknowledges the character is in a game? I can see the appeal for some, but that's definitely not for me. At least with my current tastes.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

So it's been a minute since I read Imaro.... I'd say it avoids some problematic elements around race and pulp stereotypes of Africa/Africa-esque lands by showing differentiation in people's, biomes, etc. And staying confined to this land...

That said there is some misogyny in the book. The state of Imaro's birth and his mother being shamed because his father isn't from her people (but males are celebrated for having many women and from different peoples)... also his love interest and tthe circstances around their "romance" is kind of cringe. I recognize these are problematic and why i called it out as pulp sword ad sorcery. That said I don't think there is any evidence of Charles Saunders espousing misogynistic views himself so take that as you choose.

Do the groups of people have different technology levels? If it's based on Africa I would think there would be some people in cities, while others are in tribal villages, and such.

Any cannibal tribes the other groups of people try to avoid?

 

[Mistwell]

Ah, thanks for the info. Fiction where it acknowledges the character is in a game? I can see the appeal for some, but that's definitely not for me. At least with my current tastes.

They're not in a game. It's more like the rules of magic are game-like (for reasons explained in the books), and the main character has a unique interface which is interpreting the rules for the character in a way he can understand, because he's a nerd from Earth who played RPGs.

 

[Autumnal]

I have yet to read the Imaro books. How do they avoid all problematic elements, in your opinion?

I agree with @Imaro pretty much. There’s some ethnic prejudice among some characters but no sense of authorial endorsement (bigots tend to end up getting hosed for lack of allies at needed moments), an unsurprising level of sexism for work begun in the 1970s but better than a bunch of other adventure fic from the era (better than Clive Cussler, way better than Ian Fleming), lots of cultural variety heavy on a general sense of coolness (similar to Robert E. Howard at his cultural enthusiast best or Poul Anderson’s Time Patrol stories). I believe there’s a cannibal cult at one point but no cannibal cultures. I am not recalling any homophobia, though the early books have, again unsurprisingly, heteronormative assumptions. I can’t remember what’s in the later ones as opposed to Milton Davis-edited anthologies. Rereading time, I suppose.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

One change that I've noticed over the decades is that there is a lot more literary writing in fantasy. When I was a kid, most fantasy was written at a pretty pulpy level - it was an increasingly profitable but not very serious genre. Much of the published work was very much of a potboiler nature. Predictable characters, predictable plots, little by way of theme and growth. Fun but essentially disposable reading. TSR made mint off that stuff, for example.

Now there are a lot more writers who take fantasy seriously, and consequently we get many more works that are richer in literary merit. There are still plenty of lowbrow options, and sometimes that's just what I'm in the mood for (hello, Dungeon Crawler Carl), but it's good to have more range and more ideas to explore.

There’s definitely some truth to this observation.

I was in 2nd grade (early 1970s) when I was first formally declared “gifted”. My school tried to create a program giving me things to read that would challenge & engage me. One of the people involved in that gave me an academic reader that consisted entirely of short stories & excerpted chapters from bigger names in sci-fi, fantasy and horror- JRRT, Robert Bloch and Anne McCaffrey to name a few.

At that time- and many years that followed-genre fiction was generally NOT considered literature worthy of being taught in academic settings. So for that book to exist, be selected by that school at that time and wind up in my hands was highly improbable.

(I wish I still had that book, just for proof.)

 

[Clint_L]

There’s definitely some truth to this observation.

I was in 2nd grade (early 1970s) when I was first formally declared “gifted”. My school tried to create a program giving me things to read that would challenge & engage me. One of the people involved in that gave me an academic reader that consisted entirely of short stories & excerpted chapters from bigger names in sci-fi, fantasy and horror- JRRT, Robert Bloch and Anne McCaffrey to name a few.

At that time- and many years that followed-genre fiction was generally NOT considered literature worthy of being taught in academic settings. So for that book to exist, be selected by that school at that time and wind up in my hands was highly improbable.

(I wish I still had that book, just for proof.)

I have a somewhat similar nerd origin story - I was put in a multi-grade class for supposedly "gifted" students. We had multiple teachers and one of them, Mrs. Webster (bless), handed me Ursula le Guin's A Wizard of Earthsea. And thus it began.