D&D (2024) Is a heavy armored monk feasible?

[Clint_L]

Heavy armor starts at 16 AC, goes up to 18.
Monk with 16 dex and 16 Wis has 16 AC, goes up to 22 with the capstone.

Heavy Armor monk has equal or lower AC. So what math are you talking about?

Being able to impose disadvantage at will, as a bonus action, by itself basically doubles the effectiveness of every point of AC increase, So that +2 AC is now +4. as well as basically removing critical hits as a threat. On top of the monk being able to basically negate one hit per round, and give themselves temporary hit points as a free action before a tough fight, via uncanny metabolism. All of that is by level 2, before they get evasion, proficiency in all saving throws, on demand resistance to everything but force damage, etc. Monks are now also among the best grapplers in the game, giving them excellent control. There is tremendous synergy in how the monk package works together that make them both outstanding tanks and and outstanding skirmishers at the same time.

They need nerfs, not buffs.

At the highest levels, I agree that the heavy armour becomes worthless, but that's because at the highest levels 2024 monk is flat broken. IMO, but I have played one extensively.

Edit: but the specific math in the example to which I was responding was comparing them to a 2014 bear totem barbarian. That math isn't even close - the barbarian is basically just a big ball of HP. There are a few scenarios where it does better, but in general, the 2024 monk, any subclass, is much tougher to kill and has much better control and maneuverability, with better on demand offence, as well.

 

[mellored]

Being able to impose disadvantage at will, as a bonus action, by itself basically doubles the effectiveness of every point of AC increase, So that +2 AC is now +4.

I don't see how you get +2AC at level 2. It's 16 AC either way. Maybe +1 if you got your allies to pitch in buying you armor.

Are you thinking shields?

 

[Clint_L]

I don't see how you get +2AC at level 2. It's 16 AC either way. Maybe +1 if you got your allies to pitch in buying you armor.

Are you thinking shields?

I responded to the example I was given. However, AC 20 at level 1 is not hard to get; it's standard for lots of builds.

But let's just go with AC 18 - let's say you're facing a horde of goblins. With dodge, each of them only has a ~13% chance of hitting the monk, who can then automatically negate pretty much any hit that sneaks through, as a reaction. Or an ogre. Better chance to hit (~20%), but again most or all of the damage is negated. High armour class+dodge+temporary HP+deflect attack is really, really strong. And that's on the most mobile character class in the game, which has also become one of the heavier hitters.

I know - I'm a broken record on 2024 monks. And they're super fun to play! And maybe they deserve being a bit broken, after being the bottom tier class for 10 years.

 

[ECMO3]

Heavy armor starts at 16 AC, goes up to 18.
Monk with 16 dex and 16 Wis has 16 AC, goes up to 22 with the capstone.


Heavy Armor monk has equal or lower AC. So what math are you talking about?

Heavy Armor starts at 18 and goes to 20 with a shield. I think a naked Monk is 25 with the capstone and ASIs unless I am missing something (26 Dex, 24 Wisdom).

If you are playing a heavy armor monk, I think you really want to go with a shield. Going without a shield is generally going to put you behind the naked monk at high level.

 

[ECMO3]

I know - I'm a broken record on 2024 monks. And they're super fun to play! And maybe they deserve being a bit broken, after being the bottom tier class for 10 years.

High level Monks, with a good subclass, were pretty darn good in 2014. It was the tier 2 levels where they were behind

Above level 13 or so the 2014 Long Death is probably the most durable martial in the 2014 rules.

 

[TheSword]

I just can’t quite get past the unarmed attack bonus action, the martial arts die, the fast movement, acrobatic movement and the dexterous attacks.

That is such a lot to give up, even if unarmoured defence gets balanced out by the armour.

Now barbarian in heavy armour I think works fine.

 

[mellored]

I responded to the example I was given. However, AC 20 at level 1 is not hard to get; it's standard for lots of builds.

You must have a pretty lenient DM to give you 1510 gold (+ food and supplies) at level 1.

The starting wealth charts doesn't give 1500 till level 6 or 7.

I could see splint (17) happening in at level 2 campaigns, maybe 1 if the party pooled their money to help the tank. But not plate.

But let's just go with AC 18 - let's say you're facing a horde of goblins. With dodge, each of them only has a ~13% chance of hitting the monk, who can then automatically negate pretty much any hit that sneaks through, as a reaction. Or an ogre. Better chance to hit (~20%), but again most or all of the damage is negated. High armour class+dodge+temporary HP+deflect attack is really, really strong. And that's on the most mobile character class in the game, which has also become one of the heavier hitters.

Not sure why you need to be a monk to dodge, anyone can do that.
And you don't get temporary hit points till level 10. Doubt your fighting goblins at that point.

A Paladin can also stand in a doorway, dodge, cast Shield of Faith, react with Defensive Duelist, and +Cha to all their saves.

 

[ECMO3]

Random idea i wanted to try, but is there a way to make a decent heavy armored monk?

So I was thinking up a build for this that would be pretty cool:

Your typical stereotype Dwarf - drinks way to much, constantly fighting, tough as nails

Start Fighter 1 using a morning star, chainmail and shield (alternatively War Pick), unarmed fighting style, tough feat (so+3 hps with the dwarf bonus). S17 D14 C10 I8 W16 CH8

Then go 19 levels in Drunken Master Monk - redirect attacks would be particularly good in tier 2 I think.

At level 8 you can decide if you want to keep using a shield (ASI) or if you want to transition to a heavy weapon (GWM) or Grapple (Grappler) build.

Also a Tabaxi would be particularly attractive, enabling you to move 120 feet with a bonus action dash in heavy armor, while still having an action.

 

[ECMO3]

I just can’t quite get past the unarmed attack bonus action, the martial arts die, the fast movement, acrobatic movement and the dexterous attacks.

That is such a lot to give up, even if unarmoured defence gets balanced out by the armour.

Now barbarian in heavy armour I think works fine.

I don't think that is a lot. The only thing that really hurts is the martial arts die and only at high level.

Losing martial arts is a thing at low level, but you should have bonus actions from your other class and you quickly get ki points so you are pretty covered up and won't be using martial arts much anyway.

You are less mobile then a monk, but you also have a bonus action dash, so does it really matter?

Look what you are getting though - a better AC at low level and about the same at high level (except level 20). Most builds you will get weapon mastery, damage reduction, low level Fighter or Ranger abilities.

 

[ECMO3]

Not sure why you need to be a monk to dodge, anyone can do that.

A Monk can do it with a bonus action.

Also if you really want to lean into this you can give up unarmed strikes all thogether, take defense fighting style, and use your ki for dodge most of the time.