D&D General What Does New Coke Tell Us About Designing for D&D

[EzekielRaiden]

How much profit, and what changes are allowed, before people claim a company is sacrificing to maximize profit? Because it seems like every time WotC does something some people don't personally care for the accusations of MAXIMUM PROFIT start getting thrown around.

There are a lot of ways companies maximize profits in ways I don't care for (monopolistic practices, anti-competitive measures, shifting resources overseas to countries that have questionable labor practices to name a few) that I just don't see WotC doing. Do they sometimes put out product that doesn't appeal to me? Sure. All the time. But overall WotC/D&D (I can't really talk about MtG and this forum isn't about that game anyway) is pretty middle of the road as far as a corporate practices go.

I dunno. The whole "AI bull" thing from Mr. Cocks is among the things I would cite as putting profit ahead of both long-term quality and ahead of good moral sense.

 

[Oofta]

I dunno. The whole "AI bull" thing from Mr. Cocks is among the things I would cite as putting profit ahead of both long-term quality and ahead of good moral sense.

It's still vaporware and reading tea leaves at this moment. I don't get too concerned about "what-ifs".

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It's still vaporware and reading tea leaves at this moment. I don't get too concerned about "what-ifs".

I do. Because far, far too many overlooked "what-ifs" become extremely difficult to eliminate problems when you ignore them until they actually manifest dangers. Medically, mentally, physically, emotionally. "It could be nothing, just give it time" has bitten me, or my family, far too many times.

 

[Oofta]

I do. Because far, far too many overlooked "what-ifs" become extremely difficult to eliminate problems when you ignore them until they actually manifest dangers. Medically, mentally, physically, emotionally. "It could be nothing, just give it time" has bitten me, or my family, far too many times.

There's nothing I can do about it, nothing I can or need to prepare for it, it may never come to happen, we don't know what he's really thinking or if it's just hype. I have way too many things to worry about other than the possible monster under the bed that could possibly maybe show up.

 

[mamba]

Does it? I've enjoyed my career in IT and I'm good at it. Passionate? Eh, not really. To me being "passionate" is just another buzzword thrown around to say "I like the decisions they've made"

Passionate has absolutely nothing to do with 'I like the decisions they made'. I do believe the D&D designers are passionate about their work, I still will not switch to 2024.

As to being passionate helping, I'd say it does. You will be better at things you are passionate about than at things you do not care about (unless you are extraordinarily disciplined), whether you can monetize those things is another matter.

that is only applied to things people like. A lot of vulture capitalists are passionate about what they do as they destroy companies by doing leveraged buyouts and forcing the company into bankruptcy when they're done. I doubt many people believe the end result is virtuous.

Just because you are passionate about something does not mean that the result is virtuous. The two have nothing to do with each other.

I do not really see vulture capitalists as passionate though, more as greedy. You can call that passionate for money if you like, I was talking about passionate about a skill you (can) acquire instead.

 

[Distracted DM]

I simply don't believe a desire to maximize profit is inherently bad. As far as the entire conversation goes (and I'm not saying you personally use the term this way), some people seem to think that the only "correct" way is to be passionate about what you do. In other words the "passionate" is really an appeal to authority type of fallacy, a way of justifying your opinion of why one company is better than another.

With very few exceptions every company wants to maximize profits but will have certain ... boundaries if you will ... on what they will do to maximize that profit. Do they put short term profiteering over long term stability? Promise and receive payment for services they have no intention of delivering? Do they break the law if they think they can get away with it or if the penalties don't exceed the profit? There are all sorts of business practices I would take issue with, including many completely legal practices. I don't see WotC/D&D doing anything I would consider crossing those ethical lines so therefore I don't have an issue with a suit telling investors that they want to maximize profits. Because that's what investors want to hear.

Show me what they are doing that is unethical in order to make a profit and we can have a conversation. Admitting that they're a business in a capitalistic society that is out to make money? Next issue please.

I feel like you're having a conversation with someone else. I don't think it's quite right to say "strawman" but I think you might be injecting your own issues into what I've written.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I seldom buy coke, but when I do it has to be in the little glass bottles and made with cane sugar and not corn syrup. I like it ice-cold, but not over ice - which dilutes it unnecessarily. It's then a delicious treat.

Just like B/X.

/runs and hides.

 

[GrimCo]

I've always been a top performer, lead teams, been quite successful But I wouldn't consider myself particularly passionate about my job. I liked my job and I'm glad I chose it as my profession but passionate? No. Maybe it's my midwestern farmer attitude. On the other hand if "passionate" just means "enjoys and are good at" I think it cheapens the word passionate.

+1

I'we never been particularly passionate about my chosen career field. My passion was art history and literature. But i got degree in mechanical engineering. Not because i'm very passionate about it, but cause that art degree was worthless at the time (still is, best you can do with it is teach art in high school or if you are really lucky, become assistant/professor at university), i had affinity for mechanics and electronics, was good at it, and it offered solid career options. Same with jobs. Joined army cause it offered solid pay that was on time ( believe it or not, at that time in my country, regular pay was benefit), high job security (hard to get fired) and some other minor benefits. No passion, but i was very good at it. And on every job after. Even now, most of my job is boring, but it gives good pay and solid benefits and i'm damn good at it. I work to live, not other way around. Job is there to pay for things i really love.

I reserve my passion for things outside of work. Things i'm passionate about, i'm willing to do for free, even pay to do them.

When it comes to games and designers ( worked in product design), it's not about being passionate. It's about delivering solid product your customer base is willing to pay. If we go by the numbers, WoTC is doing it just fine.

 

[Oofta]

Passionate has absolutely nothing to do with 'I like the decisions they made'. I do believe the D&D designers are passionate about their work, I still will not switch to 2024.

As to being passionate helping, I'd say it does. You will be better at things you are passionate about than at things you do not care about (unless you are extraordinarily disciplined), whether you can monetize those things is another matter.


Just because you are passionate about something does not mean that the result is virtuous. The two have nothing to do with each other.

I do not really see vulture capitalists as passionate though, more as greedy. You can call that passionate for money if you like, I was talking about passionate about a skill you (can) acquire instead.

I disagree. You can be passionate about creating garbage, committed and producing the best results possible without being "passionate".

 

[Oofta]

I feel like you're having a conversation with someone else. I don't think it's quite right to say "strawman" but I think you might be injecting your own issues into what I've written.

If you feel I've misunderstood or conflated other positions with yours, perhaps it would be helpful to succinctly state your position instead of just saying "you're wrong".

EDIT:
This particular tangent started with me replying to the statement where you stated "A goal can be 'make a living doing something I'm passionate about.'" Sure. It can. It also doesn't mean that what your passionate about will be any good. Being passionate about something also frequently blinds people to reality and alternatives.