WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

Monster_Manual_Traditional_Cover_Art_copy.webp


In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Ah, interesting that we’re getting back to discussing sales again. I haven’t heard anyone outside of this thread today say WotC is claiming it is the best selling book. I might be wrong about that and I’ll be willing to change my opinion with a cite but all I’ve heard is that it’s the best selling product.

And that means they are counting Beyond sales for it. And I don’t consider that remotely similar to a book where you need to print, ship, and store a real physical product. With Beyond you get access to sections of the book that you can read on a browser or your phone. And when Beyond is gone? You have nothing. And that comes with a monthly fee. No, to me they are not the same thing at all.
No, you get access to the entire books. Not sure what you mean by "sections." Actually, you get better access to the books, since you can access them anywhere, on any device, and if you are a master tier subscriber, like most DMs who use DnDBeyond, all of your players can also have access to the same books, on any device, for free. It's an incredible deal for 7 bucks a month - easily the best deal in my entertainment budget. That 7 bucks I swore than covered by how much less I pay for the books alone, not to mention all the other tolls I and all my players gain access to.

I bought the three 2024 books, and have shared them with 16 players via campaign sharing on DDB. The books were around 25 bucks each, digitally, so that means we collectively paid around $1.35 per book.

But yes, if DDB goes away one day, and if WotC doesn't allow us to download the materials when that happens, I will no longer have them. This is a feature, not a flaw, since by that point I will have moved on to the new game, and I won't be leaving a bunch of old books for my kid to deal with when I kick it. I am all about digital subscription services - they save me a fortune, free up a ton of space, and are way better for the environment.
Maybe the new PHB sold more books than every other one in history, as I’ve said I haven’t heard that claim but I’ve been wrong before. I’ll just say that Beyond or Foundry sales (and that includes me) are not the same thing to me.
Regardless of your personal definitions, ebook sales are very much included in "book" sales in publishing. So I am sure that WotC is counting digital books in their numbers. Which are also, typically, much more profitable. I am sure WotC would much rather sell a digital book than a physical one.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad



But why would he at this point? No one in this discussion seem to be open to listening to anything other than their own opinions, me included. I find his post nothing more than a statement of preference, no matter the wording, and I find it aimed at a certain type of design philosophy. That's just my interpretation though. People have gotten way out of hand though calling him a bigot and if I was Mearls I would keep far away from people making snap judgements like that over tweets.

Problem number 1. He used Twitter. Problem number 2 he used social media in general.
 


But why would he at this point? No one in this discussion seem to be open to listening to anything other than their own opinions, me included. I find his post nothing more than a statement of preference, no matter the wording, and I find it aimed at a certain type of design philosophy. That's just my interpretation though. People have gotten way out of hand though calling him a bigot and if I was Mearls I would keep far away from people making snap judgements like that over tweets.
I don’t know. Ask @KYRON45 - he was the one asking the question.

And for the record, I don’t think I’m out of hand saying that his post plays for a crowd of bigots and creeps.
 

If you lie down with dogs, you’re bound to get fleas.
I've been around a bunch of dogs and none of them have given me fleas.
And for the record, I don’t think I’m out of hand saying that his post plays for a crowd of bigots and creeps.
First of, that's debatable as well, and second, that's not what you said. You decided to call Mearls a bigot without any support for it but your own opinion. If we're going to hold him to such a high standard when it comes to venting his opinions on the internet perhaps we should hold our selves to those same standards.
 

I don’t know. Ask @KYRON45 - he was the one asking the question.

And for the record, I don’t think I’m out of hand saying that his post plays for a crowd of bigots and creeps.
Questions are how we learn and knowing is half the battle. Finding people on the internet to agree with you is the other half. That's the tough part. Statistics show that people on the internet really just like to argue about things that don't matter at all.*

Was, is or will D&D ever be cool? That's for you to decide. Is anything ever universally cool? Probably not. I've never been cool so what do i know?

*this statistic may or may not be made up.
 

I've been around a bunch of dogs and none of them have given me fleas.

Is your response based on unfamiliarity with the saying or something else?

First of, that's debatable as well, and second, that's not what you said. You decided to call Mearls a bigot without any support for it but your own opinion. If we're going to hold him to such a high standard when it comes to venting his opinions on the internet perhaps we should hold our selves to those same standards.
No, I responded to a question asking why I don’t keep his opinions separate from the quality of his work. I’ve laid out my reasons for why I think his comments were problematic, either unintentionally or intentionally, but I’m not in the mood to give him the benefit of the doubt. There’s a lot of bad actors in the TTRPG space, specifically the OSR space and these comments came out of possibly the biggest convention geared for the OSR crowd. I expect someone like him to know that context and words matter.
 


Remove ads

Remove ads

Top