D&D General D&D Editions: Anybody Else Feel Like They Don't Fit In?

[Micah Sweet]

Yet you felt the need to comment how it felt to you.

Sure, because I like to talk about my feelings.

 

[Voadam]

A modern 2E would be sweet. Other than For Gold and Glory (a relatively pure retroclone), I don't see a lot of specifically that in the OSR community. Strange since it seems to be what a lot of people--if not started-with-- latched onto as their most remembered TSR version.

That seems to mostly have been taken up by adding AD&D options for B/X systems, originally in the advanced Labyrinth Lord supplement and later in Advanced OSE. So you can have B/X style dwarven clerics or a B/X paladin or adding in AD&D style demons and devils. Keeps the simplicity of B/X rules chassis with a bunch of the expanded options of AD&D.

Not a lot that replaces the kits or specialty priests of non core 2e though.

 

[TiQuinn]

That seems to mostly have been taken up by adding AD&D options for B/X systems, originally in the advanced Labyrinth Lord supplement and later in Advanced OSE. So you can have B/X style dwarven clerics or a B/X paladin or adding in AD&D style demons and devils. Keeps the simplicity of B/X rules chassis with a bunch of the expanded options of AD&D.

Not a lot that replaces the kits or specialty priests of non core 2e though.

2e is the Gen X of D&D editions. Fans love it but we're too much slackers to be bothered with retroclones of it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That seems to mostly have been taken up by adding AD&D options for B/X systems, originally in the advanced Labyrinth Lord supplement and later in Advanced OSE. So you can have B/X style dwarven clerics or a B/X paladin or adding in AD&D style demons and devils. Keeps the simplicity of B/X rules chassis with a bunch of the expanded options of AD&D.

Not a lot that replaces the kits or specialty priests of non core 2e though.

That mechanical style is my ultimate preference, all the way.

 

[Quickleaf]

A modern 2E would be sweet. Other than For Gold and Glory (a relatively pure retroclone), I don't see a lot of specifically that in the OSR community. Strange since it seems to be what a lot of people--if not started-with-- latched onto as their most remembered TSR version.

From what I remember of playing lots of 2e (with questionable adherence to the rules), when it comes to distinct mechanical features of 2e, there are only two that stick in my memory…

Nonweapon proficiencies involving an eclectic mix of “stuff you can just do”, stuff that interfaces with subsystems, and stuff requiring ability checks. Very uneven, lots of overlap, but some clever ideas in there.

Character kits, full of creativity and juicy lore for character imagining, but very uneven implementation.

Are there are other uniquely 2e mechanical bits (not stuff already in 1e/OSRIC) that you’d love to see in a 2e-inspired OSR game?

 

[Willie the Duck]

That seems to mostly have been taken up by adding AD&D options for B/X systems, originally in the advanced Labyrinth Lord supplement and later in Advanced OSE. So you can have B/X style dwarven clerics or a B/X paladin or adding in AD&D style demons and devils. Keeps the simplicity of B/X rules chassis with a bunch of the expanded options of AD&D.

Not a lot that replaces the kits or specialty priests of non core 2e though.

2e is the Gen X of D&D editions. Fans love it but we're too much slackers to be bothered with retroclones of it.

That mechanical style is my ultimate preference, all the way.

I do suspect a lot of people want B/X but with paladins and demons and maybe spell disruption or 18/## Strength or 1d8/1d12 (s-m/l) longswords -- heck that's how a lot of us who started with B-BECMI played AD&D BitD quite a bit.

As for specialty priests and kits -- I'm surprised there aren't more OSR attempts at the same thing, but unsurprised there aren't a lot of retroclones or the like. I think there was a lot more love for the ideas of kits and specialty priests than the specific 2E implementations. Those often ended up hitting too low, too high, too specific, or just kinda out of left field.

 

[Voadam]

Nonweapon proficiencies involving an eclectic mix of “stuff you can just do”, stuff that interfaces with subsystems, and stuff requiring ability checks. Very uneven, lots of overlap, but some clever ideas in there.

That was in late 1e with stuff like Oriental Adventure, the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide and the Wilderness Survival Guide.

Besides kits the big unique mechanics for me was the specialty priests.

 

[Quickleaf]

That was in late 1e with stuff like Oriental Adventure, the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide and the Wilderness Survival Guide.

Besides kits the big unique mechanics for me was the specialty priests.

Yes, true. There’s always blur over at late/end of editions. The explosion of NWP was distinctly associated with 2e. I was more coming at it from the concept of updated clones - for example, OSRIC does not include NWPs afaicr.

 

[TiQuinn]

As for specialty priests and kits -- I'm surprised there aren't more OSR attempts at the same thing, but unsurprised there aren't a lot of retroclones or the like. I think there was a lot more love for the ideas of kits and specialty priests than the specific 2E implementations. Those often ended up hitting too low, too high, too specific, or just kinda out of left field.

This is it for me. I loved the idea of kits and speciality priests but some really went off the rails because 2e was notorious for things rules being designed without consideration for what was already out there. There was no cohesion as edition went on. To me, any attempt at a retroclone or system based on 2e that doesn't have kits and speciality priests is really just 1e again.

 

[Willie the Duck]

From what I remember of playing lots of 2e (with questionable adherence to the rules), when it comes to distinct mechanical features of 2e, there are only two that stick in my memory…

Nonweapon proficiencies involving an eclectic mix of “stuff you can just do”, stuff that interfaces with subsystems, and stuff requiring ability checks. Very uneven, lots of overlap, but some clever ideas in there.

Character kits, full of creativity and juicy lore for character imagining, but very uneven implementation.

Are there are other uniquely 2e mechanical bits (not stuff already in 1e/OSRIC) that you’d love to see in a 2e-inspired OSR game?

I'm not even sure NWPs fit as distinctly 2e, as nearly-identical mechanisms showed up in late 1E (OA, WSG, DSG).

Great question! The whole push for backwards compatibility means there's very little under the sun that is truly and uniquely 2E AD&D, at least until the Player's Option series. There are a few rebuilt systems where the specific implementation isn't found in 1E(/OSRIC) or in B-BECMI (and thus shows up in OSR material). Off the top of my head (and here just identifying them, not weighing in on whether I'd want to see them), I thin there's:

• AD&D 2E's initiative rules
• unarmed attack, grappling, and martial arts re-works (a few attempts, IIRC)
• Bard and Thief player choosing of ability % distribution
• Kits
• The Psionicist Class
• Wild Magic
• 'historic' wordlbooks (the green-bound leatheret splatbooks)
• PO: Spells and Magic alternate spellcasting rules
• Some PO: Combat and Tactics combat rules (ex. attacks of opportunity)

Most all the rest are seen elsewhere. As I mentioned, NWPs are late 1E. As are specific campaign worlds with their own rule changes*. Playing as non-human/non-demihumans shows up elsewhere**. Non-illusionist school specialists (evokers, etc.) are new to 2e, but with the precedence set by illusionists (and Dragonlance robe-based specialties), I'm not sure if they can be called new or not. Dragonlance also introduced specialty priests and priest spell 'spheres.' Psionics have been around since supplement-era oD&D.
*BECMI also has with Hollow World
**although the Complete Humanoids Handbook might have been the first that allowed high-powered creatures like Ogre Magi to be played at 2-3x xp cost, that might be new

Personally:

• Of these, I would love to revisit Specialty Priests, Kits, Wild Magic, and Psionicists.
• I think specific OSR game or setting books would be great places to explore a Viking- or Charlamagne setting, or use an alternate magic style.
• I think things like thieves/bards distributing their %s should be part of an overall re-think on their abilities (perhaps in conjunction with a reassessment of the skill systems in general). I think a lot of OSR games do play around with this, specifically because it's part of the TSR era on which a lot of people have mixed feelings.
• Likewise, certain rules like grappling and zone of control* are those that the game never really got right, and I think a lot of people are already working on those.*i.e. 'why not rush past the fighters to kill the magic users once play leaves 10' wide corridors and parties with 6-600 hirelings and retainers?'