D&D General D&D Editions: Anybody Else Feel Like They Don't Fit In?

[Theory of Games]

I don't use the D&D troll. Trolls in my game are a variant of Ogre or Hill Giant and some of whom may turn to stone in sunlight.

 

[Greg K]

Lol. Maybe, I need to use something much larger than a Hill Giant for the larger trolls.

 

[Lanefan]

Henchmen survived slightly less long than an unnamed marine in a xenomorph attack.

No matter how many characters set out, it very quickly became equal to the number of players.

Doesn't match my experience in several ways:

--- IME adventuring henches (as opposed to commoner hirelings, which do drop like flies when exposed to danger) tend to last surprisingly well, mostly because their higher-level bosses are looking out for them. Even then, they're still surprisingly rare in our games
--- if-when an adventure proves as lethal as your second sentence implies, IME the players will start bringing multiple characters each into the field (as DM I always allow this)
--- flip side to the last: if-when an adventure proves as lethal as your second sentence implies the number of characters can very quickly become less than the number of players if recruitment/replacement options are for some reason unavailable

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Doesn't match my experience in several ways:

--- IME adventuring henches (as opposed to commoner hirelings, which do drop like flies when exposed to danger) tend to last surprisingly well, mostly because their higher-level bosses are looking out for them. Even then, they're still surprisingly rare in our games
--- if-when an adventure proves as lethal as your second sentence implies, IME the players will start bringing multiple characters each into the field (as DM I always allow this)
--- flip side to the last: if-when an adventure proves as lethal as your second sentence implies the number of characters can very quickly become less than the number of players if recruitment/replacement options are for some reason unavailable

It wasn’t that the situation was too dangerous. The players had the habit of the henchmen into dangerous situations whilst they stayed back. So those that didn’t die deserted. We were only about 13. That’s a bit young for high level tactical thinking. And remember, no background in wargaming.

 

[Lanefan]

I never once saw or heard about this strategy being used prior to reading this post. I would not call that typical Ad&D play. That does sound like trying to run AD&D like a war game, which must have been very challenging.

Three-abreast in a 10'-wide passage plus reach weapons poking through from the second rank was and still is SOP round here if-when a party happens to have enough warriors to make it work. Far more often it's seen as an opposition tactic when the foes are halfway organized and don't have many (if any) backliners.

It was 3e that forced everyone into 5' squares. Before that, 3 feet would do and even less if the character was small e.g. a Gnome or Hobbit (or Goblin or Kobold, as many a party has found!) of which you could get 4 across a 10' passage.

 

[Lanefan]

I wonder how much we glossed over the notion that henchmen were intended to be along as extra bags of hit points and melee attacks so that the adventuring day could last longer.

Like the random soldiers who went with Perseus in "Clash of the Titans," nobody expected them to make it, they were just there to throw a few attacks and suck up damage. They were, quite literally, "tanks."

We use summoning spells/effects for that, to the point that our company motto might as well be "When in doubt, add more idiots".

Henches are treated more like real people, even as far as sometimes being revived if they die (and reviving a hench is usually a pretty good way of securing its loyalty forever, if such was ever in question).

There's no (mechanical) difference between that and giving each PC twice as many hit points and a second attack. Unless that attack is a spell, of course.

Loads of tactical difference, though. Having more actual people as henches means the henches can help cover and-or control more ground, can take care of the enemy mooks while the PCs deal with the real threats, and can (depending on their classes) broaden the party's ability base and combat options.

 

[Lanefan]

It wasn’t that the situation was too dangerous. The players had the habit of the henchmen into dangerous situations whilst they stayed back. So those that didn’t die deserted. We were only about 13. That’s a bit young for high level tactical thinking. And remember, no background in wargaming.

Fair enough for when you were 13.

We've always somewhat abided by the 1e (rule? guideline?) that says mistreatment of your hench is highly likely to affect or even negate your chances of ever hiring any others in the future; and consistently throwing your hench into danger while you hang back would in my view certainly count as mistreatment.

 

[JohnSnow]

I don't use the D&D troll. Trolls in my game are a variant of Ogre or Hill Giant and some of whom may turn to stone in sunlight.

I need to remember when I'm prepping that we're allowed to screw around with monster statistics (and names even more so).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Three-abreast in a 10'-wide passage plus reach weapons poking through from the second rank was and still is SOP round here if-when a party happens to have enough warriors to make it work. Far more often it's seen as an opposition tactic when the foes are halfway organized and don't have many (if any) backliners.

It was 3e that forced everyone into 5' squares. Before that, 3 feet would do and even less if the character was small e.g. a Gnome or Hobbit (or Goblin or Kobold, as many a party has found!) of which you could get 4 across a 10' passage.

1st didn’t really use grid based combat, but 3 ft. is probably derived from real world troops in ranks. But PCs more typically fight as individual skirmishers, so 5 ft is fair enough. It’s the difference between arms length and shoulder to shoulder.

although, as per 5e rules, a creature can squeeze into a space for a creature one size smaller. So goblins could stand 4 abreast in a 10 ft. space (with disadvantage).

 

[Thomas Shey]

Let's dispense with the "how many people agree with me and therefore make my opinion more valid" thing

I'll just direct you to the post I was responding to. If someone is going to go "Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it was uncommon" then I think pointing out experience with a large number of people in the period who didn't do that is perfectly legitimate. After all, that seems to be what they were doing in reverse.