D&D (2024) Reworking the 2024 Hiding rules

[MerricB]

I’m trying to save the descendant of old “backstab” ability here: Sneak attack.

If leaving cover immediately ends the condition, there’s no way to sneak melee attack from hiding.

That is a reason I added that "DM can keep the condition going" clause.

That one HAS to come down to DM judgement, otherwise it's run 30 feet across a plain field while the opponent is looking at you!

 

[MerricB]

Could you bold or italicize the parts you changed?

No. It's much easier for you to just compare the original text against mine. Some is changed, some is added, some is deleted.

 

[mellored]

IMO

The condition ends on you immediately after any of the following occurs: you make a sound louder than a whisper, an enemy finds you with a Search action, you make an attack roll, you cast a spell with a Verbal component, or end your turn without out cover.
If you take the Dash action, you need to reroll your stealth check with disadvantage.

That gives people an chance to sneak past guards while they look the other way. Slink from one doorway to the next down a hall. But not walk though an open hall.

 

[Clint_L]

Eh, I just use common sense. No need to overcomplicate things. I agree that the use of the word "invisible" is unfortunate, but I've expressed my thoughts on 2024's unfortunate preference for keywords in another thread.

 

[Charlaquin]

You can't remain hidden if you step out of the conditions that allowed you to hide in the first place - if you step into the open, it'll end.

Uhh… The wording of the rule you’re posted doesn’t actually say that anywhere though…

 

[MerricB]

Uhh… The wording of the rule you’re posted doesn’t actually say that anywhere though…

"or you no longer fulfill the conditions to take the Hide action."

 

[Stormonu]

D&D no longer uses facing, so conceivably even when you break from cover they may have their back to you or otherwise be looking elsewhere. What comes to mind in particular is something like the Yiga castle in Breath of the Wild where you're sneaking behind the backs of guards and such.

Also, I would like to have situations where a characters can move between cover - as long as they do it in a single action and they don't end up out in the open, they might be able to get away with it.

That said, I think I'd make it so that Stealth doesn't normally end until you complete your action, but it may affect any checks using perception. You might slip across the opening of a hall without breaking Stealth, for example, but if anyone is actively looking they get advantage to the check (or perhaps +5 to passive). You could still run up an gank someone gaining advantage/sneak attack or whatever bonus, but after the attack, your Stealth would end.

That's my two cents.

 

[Charlaquin]

"or you no longer fulfill the conditions to take the Hide action."

Oh. Yes, it does say that. I don’t know why my brain just decided to ignore those words you definitely wrote… sorry about that, my mistake!

 

[Hawk Diesel]

In case anyone is interested, here's my take on the Hide action. The intent behind it was to clarify how hiding works, formalize the use of the Hide and Search (which is an action that I think is largely ignored) actions, and reduce rolling by making the active character roll against the passive score of their opponent.

In order to take the Hide action, a creature must either be in an area that is heavily obscured, or have some physical obstacle that can be used to block line of sight. Exceptions to this include Wood Elves who can attempt to hide in areas that are lightly obscured, or Halflings who can attempt to hide behind creatures of Medium size or larger.

When a creature takes the Hide action (the hider), and there are others in the area that could conceivably see the hider (the lookers), then the hider makes a Stealth check contested by the passive Perception scores of any lookers. Lookers take a -5 penalty to their passive Perception score if they are in an area that is lightly obscured, or would otherwise have disadvantage on a Perception check. The hider is hidden from any lookers he beats, but is noticed by any lookers he doesn’t. The hider automatically succeeds against any lookers who are in an area that is heavily obscured.

On a looker’s turn, if they cannot see the hider then they can use the Search action to attempt to find the hider. The looker then makes a Perception check opposed by the hider’s passive Stealth score. The hider has a -5 penalty to their passive Stealth score if they would have disadvantage on their Stealth check. If the looker has allies with whom they can communicate who can see the hider, then the looker has advantage on this roll. A looker who is in an area that is lightly obscured has disadvantage on this roll, and they automatically fail if they are in an area that is heavily obscured. If the looker’s Perception roll beats the hider’s passive Stealth score, then they can see the hider and they are no longer hidden to that looker.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

In case anyone is interested, here's my take on the Hide action. The intent behind it was to clarify how hiding works, formalize the use of the Hide and Search (which is an action that I think is largely ignored) actions, and reduce rolling by making the active character roll against the passive score of their opponent.

In order to take the Hide action, a creature must either be in an area that is heavily obscured, or have some physical obstacle that can be used to block line of sight. Exceptions to this include Wood Elves who can attempt to hide in areas that are lightly obscured, or Halflings who can attempt to hide behind creatures of Medium size or larger.

When a creature takes the Hide action (the hider), and there are others in the area that could conceivably see the hider (the lookers), then the hider makes a Stealth check contested by the passive Perception scores of any lookers. Lookers take a -5 penalty to their passive Perception score if they are in an area that is lightly obscured, or would otherwise have disadvantage on a Perception check. The hider is hidden from any lookers he beats, but is noticed by any lookers he doesn’t. The hider automatically succeeds against any lookers who are in an area that is heavily obscured.

On a looker’s turn, if they cannot see the hider then they can use the Search action to attempt to find the hider. The looker then makes a Perception check opposed by the hider’s passive Stealth score. The hider has a -5 penalty to their passive Stealth score if they would have disadvantage on their Stealth check. If the looker has allies with whom they can communicate who can see the hider, then the looker has advantage on this roll. A looker who is in an area that is lightly obscured has disadvantage on this roll, and they automatically fail if they are in an area that is heavily obscured. If the looker’s Perception roll beats the hider’s passive Stealth score, then they can see the hider and they are no longer hidden to that looker.

This only seems to deal with sight. Which is the biggest problem with hide rules in general.