D&D General Would You Buy an RPG Product Printed on a Gutenberg Press?

Would You Buy a WotC Product Printed on a Gutenberg Press?

  • No, because such methods produce inferior quality books

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Poll closed .
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Because nothing fails to make a point like sarcasm.
Exactly, though some would argue satire. Satire and sarcasm are very powerful tools for putting social change into perspective.

One can, and perhaps should, argue about the loss of jobs and perhaps other aspects and it's a debate with robotic assembly as well. And the industrial revolution. And every other major technology change. Heck, why should you boil water before using it to wash your hands before delivering a baby? I mean it only reduced deaths during birthing by about an order of magnitude or some other astronomical value.

Moveable type is here, it will never go away. Whether it is used ethically or not, it will still be used. It will bring capabilities to the masses that were never available to them before. It will mean that there will no longer be effective gate keepers on what does and does not get published. And yes, it means that those gate keepers are no longer going to be able to make a living at what they do. They better figure out a new skill if they want to continue making a living.
 

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My time has come...
 

Exactly, though some would argue satire. Satire and sarcasm are very powerful tools for putting social change into perspective.

Ah, but whose minds, and whose perspective?

Sarcasm (and satire) generally don't provide this function to people who don't already agree with the central premise. They function more as ways of rallying like-minded people than providing perspective to people on the whole.

There was a time (luckily for you, not right now) in which we had to prohibit exactly this form of satire poll, because the result was not particularly kind-spirited. Stepping into another thread to be pointedly snarky doesn't make it okay.
 

I am but a humble copyist in the scriptorium of our holy cloister but this most devilish engine, which doth employ plates of tin and lead to impress the holy script upon parchment with unseemly haste has brought great consternation to my soul. Whole volumes are now poured out in the span of days, where once the meditative hand of a learned man would sit in the holy silence of the scriptorium and illuminate their sacred works with great reverence and care - not the infernal clattering of metal nor reek of printers ink!.

But it is not for the loss of my labours that I despair, but for the desecration of divine words by its casting before the untrained and untempered masses! What shall become of our schools, our scriptoria, our sacred order of knowledge, when every beggar and fishwife may hold the printed tome in their soiled hands and dare interpret them?
 
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Does look more like satire to me than sarcasm. Either way I have no idea what point they're trying to make
To me it was an obvious allegory to A.I. usage. Basically suggesting that the same issues and/or freak-outs that people have to the idea of A.I. writing new material and putting writers out of work was the same sorts of issues and/or freak-outs people had over book printing. And @LordEntrails thus seems to be implying that people's reactions to A.I. will end up being overblown in the long run like people's concerns about the printing press seemed to be.

Now granted the two are not a direct 1-to-1 in their representation to each other, so the satire isn't completely on point... but it's near enough to get their point across. Whether or not anyone agrees or disagrees with the conclusions of the satire is a different matter. :)
 

Sarcasm (and satire) generally don't provide this function to people who don't already agree with the central premise. They function more as ways of rallying like-minded people than providing perspective to people on the whole.
Well, I'm no expert on the topic, but the little bit of Google searching I did on the topic before posting does indicate satire is an effective tool for understanding social change. And not only for those who share a single perspective, but to a broad audience as well. Hence why similar methods are often used successfully by comedians and playwrights throughout history.
To me it was an obvious allegory to A.I. usage. Basically suggesting that the same issues and/or freak-outs that people have to the idea of A.I. writing new material and putting writers out of work was the same sorts of issues and/or freak-outs people had over book printing. And @LordEntrails thus seems to be implying that people's reactions to A.I. will end up being overblown in the long run like people's concerns about the printing press seemed to be.
Pretty much.

As pointed out by Morrus in the other thread, and though I certainly see things differently than he does. I would describe it more like many people are terrified of inevitable change that they think they can prevent through their moral outrage. And that though many seem to think that this is a new and unique phenomenon to society, it is not. Human have gone through very similar changes like this in the past. Their is no doubt harm that will come from this change. But so will benefits. And in almost every case through history these types of changes have produced vastly more benefits than they have harm.

Of course, harm at any amount is not enjoyable, and on the individual level may even be tragic. But harm on the societal level, might, maybe, even be necessary for the overall benefit of society.

What though I think this community can add value in discussion is actual practical ways that the harm that will come from LLMs and generative images can be limited within our community. How can RPG artists, writers and producers limit the harm that will come their way? How can we as a community help those creators as their industry changes?

As I've said elsewhere on this board, making a living in the TTRPG industry is hard. It's probably going to be harder to do if one sticks to the traditional income sources. It's why in the past when I've distributed adventures and content I never gave it away for free. Not because I wanted the money, but because any free source of quality content reduces the value of all quality content. In a decade, that's not going to help the professionals in the industry. What will?
 

What though I think this community can add value in discussion is actual practical ways that the harm that will come from LLMs and generative images can be limited within our community. How can RPG artists, writers and producers limit the harm that will come their way? How can we as a community help those creators as their industry changes?

Like, not using it? Networking on the site?
 

Like, not using it? Networking on the site?
For how long? How long do you think boycotting AI is going to work for? I know you hope that it could be permanent. And that you and those with your views could shutdown AI so it is never used in TTRPGs (and probably more places).

But I can say that the technologies behind AI are not going away. They are too useful, too powerful, and too important in far too many ways to be shuttered. Medicine, defense, telcoms, education, cyber, etc. What was good enough before won't be good enough in the future, not without AI technologies.

So, back to how long? How long can "we" keep AI out of the RPG industry? If "you" are overwhelming successful, a generation. At most, and that is being generous. Do you think the current 15 year olds will care? Do you think the children being born now are going to care? Procedural generation and LLMs will be used by them on a daily basis by the time they are in middle school. College professors are accepting the reality of it today. The next generation it will be as common place as automatic spell checking. By the time the next generation starts playing TTRPGs, they might not even want a static resource of any kind.

So, instead of tilting at windmills, how might we actually help TTRPG creators continue to make a living while the industry transitions? How can we enable future generations to be able to make a living creating for this hobby?
 

...I'm not sure how to respond.
Are we seriously trying to compare AI to the Gutenberg press? somehow?
Or is this a statement about printing methods regressing because of the new import taxes?
 

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