D&D (2024) 2024 - Do magic weapons bypass resistance now?

[Maxperson]

Ah.. that makes a bit more sense.

Still don't like gating by item, but it would work better that way.

How did they avoid fights?
Was there a way to run from a fight if you got over your head? Or was scouting assumed? Or did you just assume monsters never chased you? Or...?

In AD&D it was however the DM determined chases to go. Some rolled dice and higher won. Some had multiple rolls. Some had modifiers for various things. Generally, though, DMs gave a chance to run from most things. Some situations made it impossible to get away, but most did not.

 

[James Gasik]

That's fair. If everyone is getting them but you, that's not right. Next time just argue that a shortbow is a halfling longbow.

There's more to it than that. The fire giant has 2 attacks at +11 that deal 6d6+7 damage, while the glabrezu has 2 at +9 for 2d10+5,and 2 at +9 for 2d4+2. The giant is going to hit more often for significantly more damage. The pincers do have a grapple, but that ties up the grappler as well, so it's not fantastic. The giant also has a ranged attack that does 4d10+7. The glabrezu some spells, including confusion and power word stun 1xday.

Those seem pretty fairly balanced to me. Much more damage and no resistance, vs. much less damage and resistance.

Oops, I didn't mean Glabrezu, I meant a Bone Devil, which has a much closer offensive capability (lower to hit, one more attack, potentially higher damage with the poison). Don't ask why I typed the wrong name, other than oldmanitis, I was looking at the Devil's stat block. But there is a ranged attack, even if it's not primary, so I guess the Giant has a slight edge....but is that really enough to justify an extra 180 hit points on a CR?

As a complete aside, fights with tanky enemies with high AC/resistances/hit point totals can be a real slog, though I imagine this is group-dependent to a degree. Some groups are going to be more optimized and/or dish out more pain than others, which can make a fight with different monsters of the same CR play out very differently. If you say your experience is that monsters need resistance to weapon damage to feel like challenges for your groups, I totally believe you. I've had a different experience to draw upon, but it doesn't make yours invalid.

Encounter design isn't a science, and CR is at best, a loose guideline. I watched a level 11-ish group defeat a Kraken in an AL game, but have also had supposedly "moderate difficulty" encounters turn into a horrible slog that left my party wanting to crawl in a cave somewhere to long rest afterwards!

 

[James Gasik]

RE: Fleeing in combat. This is really table-dependent. Even though 5e has chase rules, there's no clear line of demarcation between "you are in combat" and "you are now in a chase". Often, enemies are as fast (or faster) than player characters, and might have ranged attacks. They usually have superior knowledge of the area as well. Knowing that fleeing foes will come back (on both sides) greatly incentives PC's and NPC's alike to running down fleeing foes.

Outdoors, you can split up and get away more easily, but indoors, like the classic "dungeon", that's not always a thing. If you stay in combat, it's pretty much impossible to flee unless you have set up a way to do so in advance (and with most fights being: "you enter this area- roll initiative!" that's not always viable) or your caster stocks the ability to summon fog/hindering terrain/illusions/darkness and has the spell slot available (again, not a given- in 3e/PF1e games, I've had my Clerics hold onto Obscuring Mist, but many were the times it got converted into a Cure Light Wounds at the worst possible time).

If consumables like scrolls and the like are easy to come by, that helps out a lot, but a lot of 5e games either lack sufficient downtime, or have DM's who feel the introduction of any random magic item could utterly destroy their encounter design.*

*I'm not being as hyperbolic about this as I'd like to be. Then again, I won't argue that the wrong item introduced into a game can cause serious issues. In the game I'm playing in now, my Wizard found a Cube of Force, and while I've only used it in one encounter, the mere threat that I might use it is making my DM pretty nervous. I'm seriously thinking I might need to make a deal with him before the item gets nerfed/stolen/destroyed, lol).

Even when I'm the DM, I have no problems with letting the party arm themselves with magic weapons (there's even a slightly cursed +3 sickle- which ironically, the Warlock who owns it wants no part of) but I'm super wary of magic armor, as it can make fights against some enemies an exercise in futility- but then at higher levels, you have enemies who snicker at AC's of 20, and a +1-3 AC stops seeming like a big deal.

 

[Maxperson]

Oops, I didn't mean Glabrezu, I meant a Bone Devil, which has a much closer offensive capability (lower to hit, one more attack, potentially higher damage with the poison). Don't ask why I typed the wrong name, other than oldmanitis, I was looking at the Devil's stat block. But there is a ranged attack, even if it's not primary, so I guess the Giant has a slight edge....but is that really enough to justify an extra 180 hit points on a CR?

The damage is a bit lower by the damage math, but it's a quite a bit lower when you factor in +8 to hit vs. the giant's +11. PCs tend to have higher ACs, so the giant is going to hit more often.

As a complete aside, fights with tanky enemies with high AC/resistances/hit point totals can be a real slog, though I imagine this is group-dependent to a degree. Some groups are going to be more optimized and/or dish out more pain than others, which can make a fight with different monsters of the same CR play out very differently. If you say your experience is that monsters need resistance to weapon damage to feel like challenges for your groups, I totally believe you. I've had a different experience to draw upon, but it doesn't make yours invalid.

Encounter design isn't a science, and CR is at best, a loose guideline. I watched a level 11-ish group defeat a Kraken in an AL game, but have also had supposedly "moderate difficulty" encounters turn into a horrible slog that left my party wanting to crawl in a cave somewhere to long rest afterwards!

I agree with this. CR isn't very accurate and player skill, as well as varying class power will make each party different.

 

[MerricB]

The 5e DMG doesn't even list resistance as big enough deal to modify CR. I guess we will have to agree to disagree with how big of a deal it is. As I said, in my experience it was enough to make a creature an appropriate CR encounter unless the part had magic weapons, then they blew through the encounter like butter.

It does - check Step 9 of creating a monster stat block, where you factor resistances into account. (2014 only, of coruse!)

Cheers!

 

[Nikosandros]

In AD&D it was however the DM determined chases to go. Some rolled dice and higher won. Some had multiple rolls. Some had modifiers for various things. Generally, though, DMs gave a chance to run from most things. Some situations made it impossible to get away, but most did not.

I'm sure that most AD&D DMs used their own house rules, but the DMG has rules and tables about pursuit and evasion.