@Mistwell
There appears to be an absence of any reference to the well-researched book I stated that I was primarily relying on.
Because the post you linked to of mine, without direct reference, was about the podcast. Which you knew, because you had just linked to it without replying to it to start this thread, remember?
There is also a complete absence to any citations to the trial court record
Saying "see the record" without linking to the record or referencing a specific part of it isn't a citation. I also said "see the record" and you found that pretty unacceptable, remember?
that you appeared to be making statements about when you posted. I am sadly not surprised.
I will make the following last two points:
1. You now appear focused on the following single sentence in the entire essay that I wrote.
No, and this is the first time I am calling you a liar. You literally just quoted my post where I explained, in multiple paragraphs, how I am happy to go through all the points made and encourage you to go through them all as well, but I wanted TO START WITH THE FIRST POINT MADE and see if you really were interested in discussing it or just cherry picking.
To which you literally just cherry picked it out of context, again knowing the context was my saying let's do all the points. You cannot have missed it. Which is why I am saying you're lying about what I just did.
For everyone's benefit, these are the sentences surrounding the new most important issue showing I am a serial prevaricator:
I am not going into all the financial issues or the final board meetings (again, read the book!). I am just going to say this- the only person surprised by Gygax's ouster was Gygax. If Gygax had not been ousted, the company would have failed.
Now, if you want to think that I am a lying liar because someone, somewhere, had been surprised by his ouster
No I said you stated a falsehood which I think you believe despite having claimed to have listened to the podcast and heard Rose Estes and others say how shocked they were.
And Rose Estes is not fairly characterized as "someone somewhere" she is a prominent voice on the very podcast you linked to. Nor was she the only one. Are you denying that or do I need to go back to that episode and quote you word for word others before you take responsibility here for stating a falsehood?
... you are correct! For example, I was surprised at the time, as were MANY MANY PEOPLE! I covered that at the beginning of the essay. But as you correctly note, I did listen to the podcast, and I read the books, and I do know about these things ... so maybe it is possible that I was referring to the events of the ouster?
Yes we're both referring to the events of the ouster which is directly what Rose Estes says she is shocked about. Those events were so secret at the time that even Gary didn't know it was Williams behind it until it came out in court. Even after the board meeting he still didn't know Williams had bought the Bloome's stock. But you were arguing nobody at TSR was shocked it happened except Gary despite only 6 total people knowing about it in a company of hundreds.
I'm guessing you still haven't read the book (or at least you refuse to acknowledge or cite to it) but luckily there is an abridged version of the incident on-line:
Here's a pull quote:
After a short discussion, the board approved the motion to appoint Lorraine Williams President and CEO, overriding Gygax’s strenuous objections. But Gygax probably would not have bothered to contest this appointment had he understood the true situation. Unbeknownst to him, everyone else in the room was privy to a critical piece of information that he lacked.
I think that saying that Gygax was only person surprised at the final board meetings by his ouster (and, as detailed in the podcasts, that his approach was truly hubristic in the classical sense) is a fair characterization.
I was obviously referencing the larger company. WHICH YOU KNEW BECAUSE YOU KNEW ROSE ESTES WAS NOT AT THAT BOARD MEETING AND I QUOTED HER REACTION. And your statement never referenced the board meeting either. Indeed, your quote was, "the only person surprised by Gygax's ouster was Gygax. If Gygax had not been ousted, the company would have failed." You're saying the ouster itself, not the the meeting, is your reference. And that it's relevant because of "the company" and not "the board meeting." It's very clear the way you wrote it you're referring to the company at large (it's employees) and their lack of surprise at his ouster from the company. And now you're backtracking to pretend it was just about the board meeting itself (though Gary was still part of the company when he left that meeting, he just wasn't CEO or Chairman).
Again, I suggest people look at histories being done by credible people using source materials that can be independently verified - and not rhetoric - and make up their own minds.
2. Given that you refuse to cite sources while arguing facts that contradict what I have seen, and continue to move the goalposts after I requested citations, I think we are good. I have no wish to engage in any acrimony, and it is clear that you do not have the desire to provide sources that would expand my knowledge of the history of the game.
My man, the only "sources" you've cited were: 1) my post, unattributed, 2) the podcast (which is what my post was in reaction to, in a thread about it), and 3) the book, broadly speaking without specific reference. You claim to have referenced the court transcript, without a link to that or citation to any specific part of it, knowing nobody is just going to go dig that up to serve your demands on that.
So let's talk about it: does the book ever claim nobody at TSR was shocked by Gary's ouster, in contradiction to what Rose Estes said? If so, please name me who is disagreeing in the book with that claim.
Again, once I can pin you down to a non-shifting answer on this first point I am happy to move on to the next one. I'm fine going all the down to the Malcolm Gladwell point, which I again is deeply ironic given your consistent position regarding Williams despite new facts being introduced which should be changing your view if you're willing to objectively re-examine them.
