Pathfinder 1E Are people still playing Pathfinder 1e?

[payn]

And arguably nobody should have min-maxers if they don't want them, it isn't difficult to simply not add those players to your campaign and to set the tone so that it doesn't arise during play from those who you thought wouldn't do it. If the whole group is doing it then you screwed up somewhere when putting your game together, and no gaming is better than bad gaming so I would just stop running the game. I see a lot of "3.x is great if you don't have people breaking the system", which I can't understand. Although nowadays people often settle for strangers online rather than making an effort to forge gaming friendships in person, which is risky I imagine.

I've forged many friendships with strangers online over gaming. Its not that hard of a thing to do.

 

[Theory of Games]

I've forged many friendships with strangers online over gaming. Its not that hard of a thing to do.

Agreed. There's so many players and GMs online that it isn't difficult to find a good group to game with.

And "Min-Maxing" is part of a recognized playstyle in the ttrpg hobby. I get that some people don't enjoy gaming with those types of players, but the characters they "build" can be very useful for a PC party.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

As my GM has said, "Disruptive players are going to find a way to be disruptive no matter what."

 

[Thomas Shey]

And arguably nobody should have min-maxers if they don't want them, it isn't difficult to simply not add those players to your campaign and to set the tone so that it doesn't arise during play from those who you thought wouldn't do it. If the whole group is doing it then you screwed up somewhere when putting your game together, and no gaming is better than bad gaming so I would just stop running the game. I see a lot of "3.x is great if you don't have people breaking the system", which I can't understand. Although nowadays people often settle for strangers online rather than making an effort to forge gaming friendships in person, which is risky I imagine.

This only works (at best, since I think an awful lot of players have what some others would call "min-maxer" tendencies), when you can't walk into problem areas by accident. Which I think was quite possible with 3e.

 

[haakon1]

And arguably nobody should have min-maxers if they don't want them, … I see a lot of "3.x is great if you don't have people breaking the system", which I can't understand. Although nowadays people often settle for strangers online rather than making an effort to forge gaming friendships in person, which is risky I imagine.

I haven’t gamed in person in years, but in person or remote isn’t the issue.

You’re perhaps closer to it on strangers versus friends.

Where I see complaints about 3e/3.5e is here on ENworld - a site originally for 3e, iirc - not in actual play. (An aside, but in actual play, 4e is the only edition I remember people hating on during play - the grind and the stacked conditions and “everyone is a caster” stuff.)

Perhaps there are complaints here because there are more people who play with min-maxers and feel the need to match them here, or more people who play with strangers, or more people who fear pointy hat DM’s and proactively min-max?

Or perhaps it’s theoretical about game rules they half remember from 20 years ago and may never have played? A lot of complaints focus on late edition splatbooks, which tend to be crap in every edition, and assume any all possible optional rules are in by default.

Whereas what I run - and see others run of 3x - is closer to original core rules, with extra rules OUT by default unless intentionally added.

Complaints also tend to focus on high-level play, whereas in 24 years of 3e/3.5e the highest level PC I’ve seen is 14th. If you stick to 6, 10, or 12 levels, whether or not X build is “broken” compared to Y build is irrelevant.

In the 4 gaming groups I’m involved in, strangers aren’t common either.

 

[earthsea_wizard]

I haven’t gamed in person in years, but in person or remote isn’t the issue.

You’re perhaps closer to it on strangers versus friends.

Where I see complaints about 3e/3.5e is here on ENworld - a site originally for 3e, iirc - not in actual play. (An aside, but in actual play, 4e is the only edition I remember people hating on during play - the grind and the stacked conditions and “everyone is a caster” stuff.)

Perhaps there are complaints here because there are more people who play with min-maxers and feel the need to match them here, or more people who play with strangers, or more people who fear pointy hat DM’s and proactively min-max?

Or perhaps it’s theoretical about game rules they half remember from 20 years ago and may never have played? A lot of complaints focus on late edition splatbooks, which tend to be crap in every edition, and assume any all possible optional rules are in by default.

Whereas what I run - and see others run of 3x - is closer to original core rules, with extra rules OUT by default unless intentionally added.

Complaints also tend to focus on high-level play, whereas in 24 years of 3e/3.5e the highest level PC I’ve seen is 14th. If you stick to 6, 10, or 12 levels, whether or not X build is “broken” compared to Y build is irrelevant.

In the 4 gaming groups I’m involved in, strangers aren’t common either.

Yeah I think you nailed it. And I was certainly speaking broadly/in umbrella terms with the online comments, although I think it is rare that people play with strangers in person, so playing with strangers being a problem probably mostly defaults to online play now (which of course there is also tons of good online play I am sure).

And the assumption to go to level 20 isn't something in my group either. I don't care much about what Gary did or didn't say in most situations, he would hate how most of us play these days anyways, but he did say that he didn't even think AD&D was meant to be played above the early teens.

Ideally characters retire at early teens and then players start different characters. Those high level characters are still around and can be brought out/played on occasion depending on the events of the world.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

High level play can also be something you jump right into for, like, a one-shot. No need to work up to it -- or go long-term with it -- if you don't want to.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'll just note "Its fine if you stop before you use a third of the advancement range its avowedly designed for" isn't, perhaps, the compliment you think it is.

 

[earthsea_wizard]

I'll just note "Its fine if you stop before you use a third of the advancement range its avowedly designed for" isn't, perhaps, the compliment you think it is.

Idk, for my group we don't stop because "it's broken" but rather at that high of level it's just kind of ridiculous to play characters anywhere other than in other planes fighting planar threats (which is cool and fun and we have done it). Its the same reason Gary stopped at the low teens, not for fear that AD&D 1e didn't work, but because that was no longer considered adventuring to him and his.

As with everything in D&D, just beacuse it is there doesn't mean it makes sense for different groups and campaigns.

 

[nevin]

And arguably nobody should have min-maxers if they don't want them, it isn't difficult to simply not add those players to your campaign and to set the tone so that it doesn't arise during play from those who you thought wouldn't do it. If the whole group is doing it then you screwed up somewhere when putting your game together, and no gaming is better than bad gaming so I would just stop running the game. I see a lot of "3.x is great if you don't have people breaking the system", which I can't understand. Although nowadays people often settle for strangers online rather than making an effort to forge gaming friendships in person, which is risky I imagine.

A larger percentage of players than I'd like, love to be the best and most powerful. Modern video games reinforce this. It's not that they want to break the system. They just want to be the best, most powerful, most knowledgeable skill monkey, whatever. It's a human thing. Happens at work and in all human relations. For groups with those people 3.0 SUCKS. Far worse than other versions.