D&D 5E I feel like the surveys gaslit WotC about """"Backwards Compatibility""""

[mamba]

WotC really pushed the backwards compatibility narrative, so if you take them at their word new core books aren't needed.

but those are not lost sales, if they did not release 2024 they would not have bought new core books either. The only way people sticking with 2014 would result in a sales decline would be if they do not buy adventures and other supplements either

I've never had a good handle on their popularity as the edition has gone on. Did the older ones sell better than the new ones, or worse?

See Are D&D Sales Declining? the pictute is taken from it, I added the Abbreviations to the dots

 

[Micah Sweet]

but those are not lost sales, if they did not release 2024 they would not have bought new core books either. The only way people sticking with 2014 would result in a sales decline would be if they do not buy adventures and other supplements either


See Are D&D Sales Declining? the pictute is taken from it, I added the Abbreviations to the dots

View attachment 405224

I'm not sure what the vertical lines are for. It looks like the answer is no, and then maybe yes.

 

[mamba]

I'm not sure what the vertical lines are for. It looks like the answer is no, and then maybe yes.

they separated the graph into three areas, the start, which was great compared to prior editions but not to the heights of 5e, the rise of 5e and finally reduced numbers after Fizban's

 

[Scribe]

Or if they're close enough. There's a big gap in power between 2014 stuff espicially early edition, tashas and 2024.

That make sense? Think I prefer all pre tashas post tashas or 2024 tbh.

Yeah, fair enough.

 

[ECMO3]

New feats that over ride the old versions, older feats that lack the +1 stat boost and say older human with bonus feat vs 2024 origin feat.

We are not using anything that is overidden by the new version, and yes the things that were rewritten are not necessarily compatible (and WOTC said this). This includes the old Human Race.

We are still using old feats that lack the +1 boost and they still work as good as they ever did.

However that leaves a ton of old stuff that is compatible, including the vast majority of FTOD.

Some feats work fine most don't imho.

Can you cite specific feats that were not overwritten and do not work now?

I will readily admit feats that were overwritten are not compatible, but the vast majority of others are.

A lot is technically compatible like being able to use a sword or Lee Enfield rifle on modern battlefield. Sure you can do that but it's not a good idea.

The things that were weak prevoously are still weak, but every bit as compatible as they were before. Races like Half-Elf and Half-Orc and Goblin are still perfectly doable.

Feats like Eldritch Adept, Martial Adept and Mobile that were not reprinted are still about as effective as they were before (i.e. ok but not great), others like Elven Accuracy and the giant feats are still top tier. Feats that were weak in 5E are still there and are still weak, but they work.

One of the weak feats from old 5E is flames of Phelthegos and it is working pretty awesome on my Eldritch Knight/Warlock. Better than it ever did in old 5E (because of synergy with Agonizing Green Flame Blade).

Some late 5E feats with a stat bump are fine eg elve accuracy.

That was XGE I believe, so 2017, not really "late".

 

[Zardnaar]

We are not using anything that is overidden by the new version, and yes the things that were rewritten are not necessarily compatible (and WOTC said this). This includes the old Human Race.

We are still using old feats that lack the +1 boost and they still work as good as they ever did.

However that leaves a ton of old stuff that is compatible, including the vast majority of FTOD.



Can you cite specific feats that were not overwritten and do not work now?

I will readily admit feats that were overwritten are not compatible, but the vast majority of others are.



The things that were weak prevoously are still weak, but every bit as compatible as they were before. Races like Half-Elf and Half-Orc and Goblin are still perfectly doable.

Feats like Eldritch Adept, Martial Adept and Mobile that were not reprinted are still about as effective as they were before (i.e. ok but not great), others like Elven Accuracy and the giant feats are still top tier. Feats that were weak in 5E are still there and are still weak, but they work.

One of the weak feats from old 5E is flames of Phelthegos and it is working pretty awesome on my Eldritch Knight/Warlock. Better than it ever did in old 5E (because of synergy with Agonizing Green Flame Blade).






That was XGE I believe, so 2017, not really "late".

OK if its that compatible DM is running 2014 game. A player turns up with 2024 PHB. Want to run those classes, spelks and feats. DM doest want to use feats.

See the problem? They're notthat compatible. Some bits and pieces are.

It's compatible the same way anchovies on pizza are technically pizza.

You can do it don't expect good results though.

 

[ECMO3]

OK if its that compatible DM is running 2014 game. A player turns up with 2024 PHB. Want to run those classes, spelks and feats. DM doest want to use feats.

That is not how the compatibility works and WOTC talked about this quite a bit. If it was reprinted you don't use what was in 2014.

Also there is a difference between backwards compatible and forwards compatible. It seems here you are talking about incorporating 2024 rules into a 2014 game, that is fundamentally different than incorporating 2014 rules into a 2024 game. The latter is backwards compatibility (2014 is compatible in your 2024 game). The first is something entirely different.

You can do it don't expect good results though.

I am getting great results in every game I am playing.

Also you keep talking about a "gap in power" when it comes to spells and feats there is a bigger gap between good spells and bad spells in 2014 and good feats and bad feats in 2014 then there is between the average 2014 spell/feat and the average 2024 spell/feat.

For example the 2014 Truestrike Cantrip, Grappler Feat and Witchbolt spell were more underpowered and more "incompatible" when playing in a 2014 game than 2014 Control Bonfire, Linguist Feat or Cause Fear are while playing a 2024 game.

 

[Zardnaar]

That is not how the compatibility works and WOTC talked about this quite a bit. If it was reprinted you don't use what was in 2014.




I am getting great results in every game I am playing.

And if someone didn't see that?

Most peopke aren't terminally online or follow whatever WotC has to say. I'm not saying it can't ve done but it's harder. 2024 is more complex and mixing and matching has a variety of issues.

 

[Imaro]

OK if its that compatible DM is running 2014 game. A player turns up with 2024 PHB. Want to run those classes, spelks and feats. DM doest want to use feats.

See the problem? They're notthat compatible. Some bits and pieces are.

It's compatible the same way anchovies on pizza are technically pizza.

You can do it don't expect good results though.

So no class is using feats... then you use the rules for no feats from 2014 for all classes including 2024 classes... what's so hard about this?

 

[Remathilis]

Or if they're close enough. There's a big gap in power between 2014 stuff espicially early edition, tashas and 2024.

There was a big gap between Purple Dragon Knight (SCAG) and Cavalier (XGE). Or genasi (EEPG) and aasimar (VGM). To me, the gap is as wide as the gaps between Xanathar and Tasha.