D&D General The First Demise of TSR: Gygax's Folly

[Snarf Zagyg]

I was there. I had a copy. But did nobody read the blurb on the back of it? "The common theme of this dungeon is that no joke is so old, no pun so bad, and no schtick is so obvious it can't be used to confuse and trip up PCs!" Doesn't sound like the classic dungeon to me - not even an homage to it unless Gygax's campaign was really for Toon.

1. "Um, people not reading something," says Snarf. "I AM SHOCKED!"

2. In my case, no. It was literally, "Wait, wut? Why is this at Waldenbooks? CASTLE GREYHAWK?"

So I will repeat- I cannot speak for everyone, but I know my own personal experience. WG7 is in a special circle of hell, joined by bards and soulless, dead-eyed elves.

 

[Mannahnin]

I bought it and did read the back cover. I was also young and ignorant enough that I didn't have Castle Greyhawk built up to legendary status on my head. I vaguely got some of the joke/implications in Mordenkainen's Movie Magic, but didn't have enough context or insider knowledge to really see how that part was joking so directly about Gary.

So overall I found it kind of interesting, a bit too silly for my tastes, and thus more disappointing than insulting.

 

[Mournblade94]

The comic books were a story in Slaying the Dragon. TSR West (under Flint Dille, as I recall) was working on multiple different media properties, none of which worked out. DC was uninterested in doing Buck Rogers, so TSR tried doing it themselves. They came up with the concept of a "comic book module" as a combined story plus game content in comic book form, to be distributed in comic shops and anywhere a comic could be. They tried to justify this as not being the same thing as a comic book and thus not in conflict with their licensing agreement with DC, but DC was unhappy and that experiment wound up crashing their relationship.

The forgotten story of D&D creator TSR’s failed attempt to break into comics and become the next Marvel or DC

The Dungeons & Dragons maker tried to take on the creator of Batman - and lost.

www.dicebreaker.com

Ah right. I read this so I guess what I thought was sheer speculation was actually just information from this. Thanks!

 

[numtini]

In columns in Dragon years later, after he started getting territorial

I'm thinking particularly of the infamous Sorcerer's Scroll in Dragon 16, reprinted in I think it's the 2nd Best of anthologies. It's just a nasty piece of work that can best be summarized by "these peasants do not understand my genius."

 

[MGibster]

Another problem with TSR evident right there. Self publishing those comics. Sheer speculation: I'm imagining DC not wanting to.licencd them (they were publishing D&D and Forgotten Realms comics) so TSR went ahead and did it. Needlepoint lesson never learned.

It’s worse than that. DC had a deal with TSR to publish D&D comics. TSR tried to get around that deal by publishing their own comic and adding scenario information at the end based on the story. DC was not amused.

 

[Warren]

I collected all of the DC/TSR comic lines, and was bummed when they stopped. I still have them all. At the time (I was a kid) I assumed it was from low sales. Is there any detail on how successful they were?

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

Dungeons & Beavers, as the Cal-Tech house rules were sometimes called

For anyone scratching their heads: Caltech's mascot is a beaver (nature's engineer).

 

[Mannahnin]

I'm thinking particularly of the infamous Sorcerer's Scroll in Dragon 16, reprinted in I think it's the 2nd Best of anthologies. It's just a nasty piece of work that can best be summarized by "these peasants do not understand my genius."

Yes, it's a heck of a read. His blanket condemnations of APAs are pretty rich, after the nice letters he wrote into A&E in prior years. I also like how he dumps on "weapon expertise" systems, while publishing rules for weapon proficiencies that same year in the PH, and Weapon Specialization rules in Unearthed Arcana later.

That being said, his remarks on some of these subjects in the AD&D DMG the following year are much milder and more professional. He must have been in a particularly foul mood from his various grudges when he penned that particular column.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

Yes, it's a heck of a read. His blanket condemnations of APAs are pretty rich, after the nice letters he wrote into A&E in prior years. I also like how he dumps on "weapon expertise" systems, while publishing rules for weapon proficiencies that same year in the PH, and Weapon Specialization rules in Unearthed Arcana later.

Shades of the gubernatorial candidate in William S. Burroughs' "When Did I Stop Wanting to be President": "Anything I do for you, I'll depreciate".

 

[Sacrosanct]

I collected all of the DC/TSR comic lines, and was bummed when they stopped. I still have them all. At the time (I was a kid) I assumed it was from low sales. Is there any detail on how successful they were?

There were actually pretty successful. Which makes the story even more of a tragedy. A couple years ago I was rereading mine and made a FB comment about how I really liked at the back of them, they had D&D stats for characters. Jeff Grubb and James Lowder said that almost didn't happen. They had to convince them to include those.

Trying to loophole around DC is just another example of how TSR leadership royally screwed up.