Daggerheart General Thread [+]

[Reynard]

There's a bunch of advice on reddit about this; generally looking at the T4 dragon that has multiple phases or adding extra HP etc if you want to

I will have to see what happens in actual play and figure out a way to solve the issue. I don't have enough experience with the system to know if "serial solos" would be as effective an encounter as one "true solo." Andin general I think reddit does terrible homebrew solutions to almost everything because in most cases there isn't much actual analysis. just look at the various bits and bobs since the card creator has come out.

 

[zakael19]

I will have to see what happens in actual play and figure out a way to solve the issue. I don't have enough experience with the system to know if "serial solos" would be as effective an encounter as one "true solo." Andin general I think reddit does terrible homebrew solutions to almost everything because in most cases there isn't much actual analysis. just look at the various bits and bobs since the card creator has come out.

Here's a reply on a Reddit thread about this from the designer of the Adversary section with some ideas and input if that that helps.

Edit: here's an adversary creator sheet the same poster shared.

 

[overgeeked]

Here's a reply on a Reddit thread about this from the designer of the Adversary section with some ideas and input if that that helps.

Edit: here's an adversary creator sheet the same poster shared.

I’ve read through most of those threads and didn’t find that comment particularly helpful. The XL sheet is helpful but getting the actual numbers behind all the adversaries would help more.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't have enough experience with the system to know if "serial solos" would be as effective an encounter as one "true solo."

I think it's obvious they will do if they have Relentless (X) - or similar - because of the action economy in DH and realizing that CC in DH is pretty weak.

Like, think about it - if you have a group of monsters, if a PC fails a roll or rolls with Fear, you get to spotlight one. Then you have to spend Fear to spotlight others. If a monster is CC'd, to clear the CC, you have to Spotlight them and describe how they clear it.

With a solo monster it's pretty much exactly the same situation, so long as the Relentless (X) value is high enough to accommodate the amount of Fear you want to spend after the initial spotlight. If PCs fail rolls/roll with fear there's nothing mechanically stopping you spotlighting the same monster repeatedly - it's only for Fear-based stuff you need Relentless.

Reactions can also be helpful to solos.

With multiple monsters CC is potentially worse, because you might have multiple ones CC'd at once, and each time you Spotlight them, you lose that Spotlight to clearing the CC.

 

[Reynard]

I think it's obvious they will do if they have Relentless (X) - or similar - because of the action economy in DH and realizing that CC in DH is pretty weak.

Like, think about it - if you have a group of monsters, if a PC fails a roll or rolls with Fear, you get to spotlight one. Then you have to spend Fear to spotlight others. If a monster is CC'd, to clear the CC, you have to Spotlight them and describe how they clear it.

With a solo monster it's pretty much exactly the same situation, so long as the Relentless (X) value is high enough to accommodate the amount of Fear you want to spend after the initial spotlight. If PCs fail rolls/roll with fear there's nothing mechanically stopping you spotlighting the same monster repeatedly - it's only for Fear-based stuff you need Relentless.

Reactions can also be helpful to solos.

With multiple monsters CC is potentially worse, because you might have multiple ones CC'd at once, and each time you Spotlight them, you lose that Spotlight to clearing the CC.

there are some slight differences between running a solo three times in a row and giving it 3x the hit points, though. That is what I was wondering about with regards to whether "serial solos" was the equivalent of a "true solo."

 

[Ruin Explorer]

there are some slight differences between running a solo three times in a row and giving it 3x the hit points, though. That is what I was wondering about with regards to whether "serial solos" was the equivalent of a "true solo."

I'm not arguing, right, but what differences would you point to as having like, balance/functionality implications? I'm struggling to think of any but it doesn't mean they don't exist!

The main difference I can see is that a solo which just like, has like 18 HP (instead of 6), say, would probably be kind of boring to take down, because that's 6 to 18 hits (and probably at least 12 unless the PCs are rolling amazing damage), and it'll have like, what, probably 8-15 spotlights from the PCs failing rolls/rolling with Fear in that time (I'm assuming they'd be working to get Advantage, using Experiences etc. to reduce the outright fail rate in such a fight), and if it's basically only got a couple of things it does, you might have to work pretty hard to make that interesting.

Whereas if you have a "serial" solo which has three stages (each technically a solo with 6 HP) with different abilities/characteristics each, I think that's probably going to be more inherently interesting and a little less work to keep entertaining. I'd probably include verbiage that cleared CC "for free" on a stage change.

Just thinking about the sheer number of spotlights you could potentially have on the same monster I'd definitely save 3x HP/triple stage solos for like, really climatic boss fights, probably once every few sessions.

 

[Reynard]

I'm not arguing, right, but what differences would you point to as having like, balance/functionality implications? I'm struggling to think of any but it doesn't mean they don't exist!

The main difference I can see is that a solo which just like, has like 18 HP (instead of 6), say, would probably be kind of boring to take down, because that's 6 to 18 hits (and probably at least 12 unless the PCs are rolling amazing damage), and it'll have like, what, probably 8-15 spotlights from the PCs failing rolls/rolling with Fear in that time (I'm assuming they'd be working to get Advantage, using Experiences etc. to reduce the outright fail rate in such a fight), and if it's basically only got a couple of things it does, you might have to work pretty hard to make that interesting.

Whereas if you have a "serial" solo which has three stages (each technically a solo with 6 HP) with different abilities/characteristics each, I think that's probably going to be more inherently interesting and a little less work to keep entertaining. I'd probably include verbiage that cleared CC "for free" on a stage change.

Just thinking about the sheer number of spotlights you could potentially have on the same monster I'd definitely save 3x HP/triple stage solos for like, really climatic boss fights, probably once every few sessions.

I don't think the spotlight time is going to change much since it is the same number of rolls.

As to those differences: some adversaries have countdowns that start when they get their first spotlight (ex: Fallen Warlord: Realm breaker) which would only work once for the 24 HP solo, versus 3 times for the serial solo.

One the bolded part: that is a different issue and not really relevant to the fundamental question here.

 

[zakael19]

I’ve read through most of those threads and didn’t find that comment particularly helpful. The XL sheet is helpful but getting the actual numbers behind all the adversaries would help more.

I mean, I thought it was a good bit of actionable input from somebody who’s done enough running and playtesting to give some direct suggestions. Their comment history has some designs & other crafting hiding in it.

Apparently there was more math or something during the playtest or provided to the community at some point that didn’t make it into the final book.

 

[Reynard]

Did anyone watch the Critical Role 10th anniversary panel? Did they mention Daggerheart?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

As to those differences: some adversaries have countdowns that start when they get their first spotlight (ex: Fallen Warlord: Realm breaker) which would only work once for the 24 HP solo, versus 3 times for the serial solo.

Yeah and I would say this is another reason why the "serial solo" is probably going function better than a big pile of HP solo unless the specific mechanism it uses for extra actions is Relentless (X), which can work equally well for either.

I don't think the spotlight time is going to change much since it is the same number of rolls.

Yeah I'm aware I'm just pointing out it's likely to be quite a large number of "goes". Hence some consideration is due to the whether things might get "same-y".

One the bolded part: that is a different issue and not really relevant to the fundamental question here.

Is it though? I feel like it's inextricable from determining which approach is the right approach for a specific solo.

I will say, I cannot myself imagine a situation where "big pile of HP" is going to work better mechanically than "serial solo", but maybe I'm not thinking about it hard enough?