So you're done with D&D but still want to play D&Dish fantasy...

[Vael]

I didn't think I was done with DnD ... tbh, I still want to play it. But I'll confess Daggerheart kinda stole my heart. It's simpler, faster and just seems to have synthesized a lot of elements from other games and made them work together.

I do think that it is primarily that my taste for system complexity has been trending down. Any system that claims to offer something crunchier than 5e gets an immediate ... eh, probably not for me response. Bounced off Pathfinder 2, haven't even considered trying Level Up, barely got through an Exalted campaign. When 5e came out, it was the sweet spot for system complexity ... now I'm feeling it's close to the upper bound for me.

 

[jian]

This always seems to go back to what your group liked about D&D but why they don’t want to play D&D.

For our group, 5E was the most palatable version since 2E but it still got a bit wearying. At the same time we’d absorbed a lot of more modern fantasy tropes and didn’t mind seeing those reflected in our games. So arguably the only game to scratch the D&D itch we’ve played is Fabula Ultima, but as the GM I’m also looking at Dragonbane and Daggerheart. But currently we’re deep into an X-men 1995 MSH campaign so we’ll see after that.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Near as I can tell, Daggerheart is one step toward narrative-focused play (starting from 5e). So if you like 5e but wish it was a little easier to refluff, was more flexible on backstory, and had more roleplaying prompts than 5e, Daggerheart might be right for you.

If you’re starting from a PbtA position, Daggerheart is less if those things and way crunchier.

 

[Voadam]

Do you like AD&D but wish it had an active defense? Want an actual skill system to check against and not the more feat-like non-weapon proficiency system? Do you feel alignment should have more specifically designed codes? Do you want more core monstrous race options with race possibly having more impact with still limited class options but not level limits? Armor absorbing damage but can be worn down over time? Want xp to not be based on killing things and taking their stuff?

Check out Palladium Fantasy RPG.

An active defense system of parrying and dodging. Percentile class skills that go up by level. Its own alignment system, options to play trolls and ogres and goblins and kobolds, etc. Race affects number of dice for stats and class options but not level limits. Armor absorbs damage but loses points as it does. Its own xp award chart.

Want those AD&D variant ideas but throw on more hp and apply it to other genres than fantasy gaming? Palladium Books does modern occult, TMNT, super cool modern martial arts, and superheroes? Palladium does all that with various options and compatible alt games.

Want all that but cranked up to 11 in an over the top post apocalypse with super tech and super magic and tons of crazy creatures? Rifts, Rifts, Rifts where weapons and armor (and spells and powers) are rated in mega damage (units of 100 normal hp for each mega damage). PCs can be cyborgs, tecno wizards, ley line walker wizards, juiced up super warriors who will die in four years, power armor specialists, super psions, dragons, or non-mega street kids and archivists, and that is in the core book before you get in the 30+ supplements that take it from there.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Near as I can tell, Daggerheart is one step toward narrative-focused play (starting from 5e). So if you like 5e but wish it was a little easier to refluff, was more flexible on backstory, and had more roleplaying prompts than 5e, Daggerheart might be right for you.

If you’re starting from a PbtA position, Daggerheart is less if those things and way crunchier.

Yes and for my group it seems like the "strike zone" for heroic fantasy RPGs is very much in-between PtbA (specifically Dungeon World) and 5E, and Daggerheart is right in there, as you say.

Someone said there were an embarrassment of riches with this genre, and yeah, really, it's absolutely insane, it's a golden age of this kind of game. I think I'd be absolutely fine with Shadowdark or Draw Steel! or Fabula Ultima or PF2 or even a heavy optional-rules using Worlds Without Number, and like, that's the tip of the iceberg.

 

[nevin]

If you're into X, then play Dragonbane.

If you're into Y, then play Shadowdark.

If you're into Z, then play Pathfinder.

And so on.

"X, Y, Z" can be any specific or gestalt of qualities you feel like assembling, and of course include as many games as you like. I'd even suggest being vague as to what "D&Dish" means...I mean, if you need me to define it, I'd suggest something simple like "adventure-based fantasy."

I'm mainly just curious how people would characterize the plentiful "D&D alternatives" that are out there now, many of which have stable fan bases - and specifically, how they might be characterized in reference to D&D.

And of course the reasons a person is "done with D&D" might vary - be it WotC corporatism, their recent artistic direction, tonal qualities, complexity fatigue, or just wanting a change, etc -- I don't think that part really matters, except as it relates to the alternatives and what they offer.

Have at it....

I think the problem usually occurs that when you've been playing D&D finding people who play the other games can be difficult. And just because you are tired of DND and want x, y or z doesn't mean anyone you play is wanting the same thing. It can be like telling people I've left twitter for bluesky. You might just find yourself all alone looking for a new group.

 

[Theory of Games]

I think the problem usually occurs that when you've been playing D&D finding people who play the other games can be difficult. And just because you are tired of DND and want x, y or z doesn't mean anyone you play is wanting the same thing. It can be like telling people I've left twitter for bluesky. You might just find yourself all alone looking for a new group.

Sometimes finding new people is the best solution IME. But, I get that it isn't easy finding them. I used Meet-Ups and lurked Facebook to find new groups. Playing online (VTT or play-by-post) is another possibility, as well.

 

[Clint_L]

Frankly, when I'm done with D&D then I'm done with fantasy for awhile. I don't see a huge advantage to transitioning to a whole other rules system to experience basically the same stories. It's all just tinkering at the edges.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

I love 5E but conceptually and thematically I just don't like how D&D does magic. It's basically unlike anything in fantasy fiction. Logically, it's a bit of a hot mess.

More flavorful, focused spellcasting is one of the many things I love about Shadow of the Demon Lord / Weird Wizard, along with amazing customization and clean, elegant design. It's a great system for playing 6-12 month campaigns.

I haven't tried this out yet, but I'm pretty sure you could use monsters straight out of the 5E Monster Manual and adapt them on the fly to SotWW.

 

[Imagine That TTRPG]

It would be Pathfinder for me. I loved D&D 3.5e's crunch, and I still use it even though I'm incorporating PF 1e's expansions, like the newer Inevitable types. I started with Dragonlance Adventures (AD&D 1e) when I was a kid. It was my older cousin's book and I loved it. I ran games with that for years. I reluctantly went to 3e from AD&D 2e, but loved 3.5e. I felt 3.5e didn't last long enough before 4th came out, and I didn't personally care for some of the changes. It wasn't so much about the mechanics as it was the lore. I was afraid to fall in love with 5e, despite the good reviews. Dicefreak's Godspell was really cool, like, inspired. Their 'The Gates of Hell' was a masterclass in worldbuilding and lore sophistication in my humble esteem. Anyway, PF is great as a system. I haven't really dug into their lore so much yet because I've been a homebrew guy ever since I left Krynn. I'm going to look into Dragonbane and Shadowdark to see what they're about.