Purple Dragon Knight Retooled as Banneret in D&D's Heroes of Faerun Book

The much-maligned Purple Dragon Knight Fighter subclass is being retooled towards its original support origins in the upcoming Heroes of Faerun book. Coming out of GenCon, an image of a premade character sheet of a Banneret is making its way around the Internet. The classic support-based Fighter subclass appears to have replaced the Purple Dragon Knight subclass, which received a ton of criticism for not resembling the Purple Dragon Knight's traditional lore.

The Banneret's abilities includes a Level 3 "Knightly Envoy" ability that allows it to cast Comprehend Language as a ritual and gain proficiency in either Intimidation, Insight, Performance, or Persuasion (this appears unchanged from the Purple Dragon Knight UA), plus a Group Recovery ability that allows those within 30 feet of the Banneret to regain 1d4 Hit Points plus the Banneret's Fighter Level when the Banneret uses its Second Wind ability. Scrapped is the Purple Dragon companion that the UA version of the subclass had, which grew in power as the Purple Dragon Knight leveled up.

The Banneret was the generic name for the Purple Dragon Knight in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. The Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight was originally more of a support class that could provide the benefits of its abilities to its allies instead of or in addition to benefitting from them directly. For instance, a Banneret's Action Surge could be used to allow a nearby ally to make an attack, and Indomitable could allow an ally to reroll a failed saving throw in addition to the Banneret.

 

[Mecheon]

Them championing independence is repeatedly listed. The majority of the time there's more than one of them it's because it's a family unit. They're famous for their neutrality to the point of arguing that Demons should be left alone.

That hasn't come up once in the stuff that Pukunui posted from this edition, so I gotta ask for a source. My source has them as disliking violence and being diplomatic sorts, being highly regarded as mediators for wars, which is, y'know, the type of thing appropriate for knightly virtues and the like

Regardless though, we are talking over 100 years. The fact the Purple Dragons exists is a small miracle in of itself. There aren't many knightly orders in our world that have lasted that long

 

[Necropolitan]

Regardless though, we are talking over 100 years. The fact the Purple Dragons exists is a small miracle in of itself. There aren't many knightly orders in our world that have lasted that long

...it's a D&D setting. Things from thousands of years ago still being around is normal and they're a military unit that's proven their effectiveness time and again so it makes complete sense that they'd still be around. The kingdom's still ruled by the same family which goes back further than any royal bloodline IRL.

As for the teamup, it'd be one thing if it were to deal with something both Purple Dragon Knights and Amethyst Dragons were already established as caring about, but a PC Purple Dragon Pet Owner is most likely not going to be doing that unless clearing out rats in tavern basements somehow is on par with Far Realm invasions.

Also there's the whole thing of the Amethyst Dragons being newly-hatched. Amethyst Dragons have been established as caring deeply for their children, not sending them into mortal peril.

 

[pukunui]

Regardless though, we are talking over 100 years. The fact the Purple Dragons exists is a small miracle in of itself. There aren't many knightly orders in our world that have lasted that long

The Knights Templar existed for nearly 200 years (1118-1312), to name one example.

The Knights Hospitaller, founded in 1113, are still around. They're one of the main ambulance / first aid providers here in New Zealand (St John).

The Teutonic Order, founded in 1190, is also still around and still confers honorary knighthoods.

The British monarchy has been conferring knighthoods on its subjects uninterrupted for centuries.

So, no, it's not really a miracle that the PDKs are still around. In fact, it does make sense that they've expanded into an international faction. I won't be surprised if they don't name drop people like Sir Isteval, the retired PDK living in Daggerford who featured more prominently in D&D Next and early 5e products, as being instrumental in helping the PDKs spread beyond Cormyr.

 

[Tonguez]

The Knights Templar existed for nearly 200 years (1118-1312), to name one example.

The Knights Hospitaller, founded in 1113, are still around. They're one of the main ambulance / first aid providers here in New Zealand (St John).

The Teutonic Order, founded in 1190, is also still around and still confers honorary knighthoods.

The British monarchy has been conferring knighthoods on its subjects uninterrupted for centuries.

So, no, it's not really a miracle that the PDKs are still around. In fact, it does make sense that they've expanded into an international faction. I won't be surprised if they don't name drop people like Sir Isteval, the retired PDK living in Daggerford who featured more prominently in D&D Next and early 5e products, as being instrumental in helping the PDKs spread beyond Cormyr.

Dont forget the Sovereign Knights of Malta founded 1048 and, despite having no territory, still recognised as a Sovereign entity with a seat on the UN. It could well be that the PDKs are recognised as having international impact and being as significant and powerful as some nations

 

[Necropolitan]

So, no, it's not really a miracle that the PDKs are still around. In fact, it does make sense that they've expanded into an international faction. I won't be surprised if they don't name drop people like Sir Isteval, the retired PDK living in Daggerford who featured more prominently in D&D Next and early 5e products, as being instrumental in helping the PDKs spread beyond Cormyr.

Especially since the Purple Dragon Knights are driven by their ideals even if they are tied to one nation.

Which is why the Banneret is better in my opinion since it doesn't tie a PC to an established doctrine.

A player can have their Banneret PC be a Purple Dragon Knight or they can have them be a generic Warlord-style character.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There aren't many knightly orders in our world that have lasted that long

Order of the Garter: 677 years and still going.

It's done it by changing it's role to suit the times though.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Which is why the Banneret is better in my opinion since it doesn't tie a PC to an established doctrine.

The Banneret is so boring that no one will ever play it. It's a pointless waste of space. Battlemaster is flat better and can fill exactly the same RP role. Champion all fits the role if you want something simpler.

You know what role we don't have a fighter subclass for: dragon rider (or any sort of rider, but dragons are currently popular).

 

[Amphytrion]

I'm confused about these statements that they haven't touched Purple Dragon Knights in 125 years.

They are in the SCAG, set roughly 12-15 years before this upcoming book, where they were spotlit via this exact subclass (an earlier iteration). They get roughly one page of write-up there. Cormyr gets yet another subclass in the book, War Wizards, which are the spellcasting subdivision of Cormyrean military.

There are also Cormyrean NPCs in WotC's adventures, starting all the way back in Rise of Tiamat. It's not like nobody knows what is going on in Cormyr.

There are no references to amethyst dragons anywhere in any of these books.

I don't think any of this matters. Some people don't care at all about Purple Dragon Knights or Amethyst Dragon lore, and they wanted a pet dragon class. That’s a fine position to have, but there’s no need to start squinting towards amethyst dragon lore to find a way for this all to come together.

I’ve DM’ed for two Bannerets over the years (one currently, 2014 rules). There will be players for them even if you personally find them boring.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

That hasn't come up once in the stuff that Pukunui posted from this edition, so I gotta ask for a source. My source has them as disliking violence and being diplomatic sorts, being highly regarded as mediators for wars, which is, y'know, the type of thing appropriate for knightly virtues and the like

Regardless though, we are talking over 100 years. The fact the Purple Dragons exists is a small miracle in of itself. There aren't many knightly orders in our world that have lasted that long

Um, pretty much all the knightly orders around today are way older than that. Do you think there were many set up after 1925?

 

[Mournblade94]

Then no one ever uses real setting because I GUARANTEE you no one ever knows entire official lore.

And what if the official lore is bad or limiting? Do you demand all Monks to be shaven-bald and living in monasteries? All Orcs to be too stupid to be playable? All Drow to be inherently evil by being born with soul tainted by Lolth and unable to not be drawn to betrayal and cruelty? All lore that, I'm gonna be honest, I'm glad is gone.

Also, setting-in-name only isnt' so bad. Dark Sun fans prefer Dark Sun where novels didn't happen, for example.

And you do realize the fact that the moment this book gets published, the hypothetical dragon-riding PDK will become official lore? So if YOU don't use it, YOU are running Forgotten Realms in name only.

It will be nonsense official lore. New lore ignorant if the old lore.

All table campaigns are different. Clearly I'm talking about the publishers. I dont care if someone changes it for their campaign. When lore changes DMs have to then stop the players from bringing lore changes that dont make sense into the game.

PDK riding purple dragons dont even make sense with current lore models.

If players want to.play orcs in my game they have to be half orcs. Orcs are not a player race in any of my games except the elder scrolls I'm running with a different system.
I strictly limit the races that can be played even in 5e.

I am in no way a fan of orcs being playable. Inherently evil orcs are a thing thanks to gruumsh. Species can have different intelligence levels. I have no problem limiting orc intelligence.

I see no problem with inherently aligned races. I enforce it still.

Monks were always martial artists and never represented the cloistered european monks. Even in AD&D depictions.

Im not ok with official lore being arbitrary or reactionary.