Purple Dragon Knight Retooled as Banneret in D&D's Heroes of Faerun Book

The much-maligned Purple Dragon Knight Fighter subclass is being retooled towards its original support origins in the upcoming Heroes of Faerun book. Coming out of GenCon, an image of a premade character sheet of a Banneret is making its way around the Internet. The classic support-based Fighter subclass appears to have replaced the Purple Dragon Knight subclass, which received a ton of criticism for not resembling the Purple Dragon Knight's traditional lore.

The Banneret's abilities includes a Level 3 "Knightly Envoy" ability that allows it to cast Comprehend Language as a ritual and gain proficiency in either Intimidation, Insight, Performance, or Persuasion (this appears unchanged from the Purple Dragon Knight UA), plus a Group Recovery ability that allows those within 30 feet of the Banneret to regain 1d4 Hit Points plus the Banneret's Fighter Level when the Banneret uses its Second Wind ability. Scrapped is the Purple Dragon companion that the UA version of the subclass had, which grew in power as the Purple Dragon Knight leveled up.

The Banneret was the generic name for the Purple Dragon Knight in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. The Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight was originally more of a support class that could provide the benefits of its abilities to its allies instead of or in addition to benefitting from them directly. For instance, a Banneret's Action Surge could be used to allow a nearby ally to make an attack, and Indomitable could allow an ally to reroll a failed saving throw in addition to the Banneret.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Amethyst Dragons aren't inherently Evil in any Edition (at worst they were listed as "Always Neutral") and the Purple Dragon Knights aren't trained as dragonslayers, they focus on group tactics. So you got the lore wrong again.

Amethyst Dragons ARE famously independent and isolationist to the point that there's no way there'd be enough of them in the area to make that kind of alliance (parents stay together long enough for procreation and then leave far away, Cormyr's got enough space for maybe 2 of them if they're especially sociable for their species).

Moreover Amethyst Dragons are also noted for preferring diplomacy over violence to the point of trying to mediate conflicts between Fiends, so them sending their children off to fight is ALSO OOC.

Purple Dragon Knights on the other hand are all about banding together and have incredibly strong moral and ethical rules. They're also a nationalist group dedicated to the crown and favor taking action even if it means violence.

So the opposite of Amethyst Dragons.

Multiple people already pointed this out. No in-universe reason has been provided for why this alliance makes sense and it's obvious it was just having the Purple Dragon Knights get paired with dragons with purple scales, which is ridiculous.

And yet PDK are also idealistic knights, in the vein of Camelot, aren't they? Every time Cormyr has been ever described to me it was as "King Arthur-style place". Do you really don't think that kind of people would not benefit from having a mount who is a mediator? It feels like a match made in heaven for the purpose, very "speak softly and carry a big stick". It seems to me you are selectively cherry-picking parts of lore that show Cormyr in worse light to support your argument, and ignore the positive parts.

And I did brign the "dragosn are inherently evil" because, asi I expected, all your arguments on the side of Dragons boil down to the very same thing as that argument - natu8re. You make assumptions that what is said about Dragon nature is inherently defining and set in stone, and cannot be overcame with nurture. Which I already pointed out is a kind of attitude towards lore I am glad to see gone, as seen with the Drow example above.

 

[pukunui]

The full text was already posted.

The full text from the UA. We don't know what the text for the PDK faction in the book actually says. Yes, there's some art of PDKs with amethyst dragons floating around, so the partnership is probably still going to be a thing, but we don't know any of the details yet.

 

[Mecheon]

Amethyst Dragons ARE famously independent and isolationist to the point that there's no way there'd be enough of them in the area to make that kind of alliance (parents stay together long enough for procreation and then leave far away, Cormyr's got enough space for maybe 2 of them if they're especially sociable for their species).

Amethyst dragons are chill and diplomatic? They prefer talking rather than fighting, but they're not isolationist

Emeralds are the paranoid batch who don't like dealing with other people. Amethysts aren't Crystal dragon friendly, sure, but they're not isolationist

 

[pukunui]

Since gem dragons aren't in the revised MM, Fizban's is still the authoritative 5e source for information on them. Let's see what that book says about amethyst dragons:

Amethyst dragons, the mightiest of the gem dragons, study and psionically manipulate the fundamental principles of the multiverse, from the force of gravity to the emanations of the Outer Planes. Their innate psionics give them a measure of control over how physical laws affect them. They defy gravity with flight that doesn’t rely solely upon their great wings, and gravitational force empowers both their devastating breath weapon and the exploding amethyst crystals they spit at their foes.

Many amethyst dragons are fascinated by the existence of other worlds in the Material Plane, and especially the way individual dragons manifest unique echoes across those worlds. They also prize understanding of the cosmic forces that emanate from the Outer Planes, studying the opposing tides of good and evil, chaos and order, so they can offer counsel to those with the wisdom to accept it.

Amethyst dragons pay particular attention to intrusions of the Far Realm into the Material Plane. They loathe the corruption that accompanies such intrusions into the world, making them fierce opponents of the Far Realm and any creatures warped by its touch. Strangely, though, they are intrigued by and fond of flumphs. These Aberrations, which oppose the depredations of mind flayers and other wicked Aberrations, remind amethyst dragons that allies can be found in the strangest places.

In addition to material wealth, amethyst dragons delight in collecting knowledge and magic dealing with the nature of the planes of existence, cosmic forces, and distant worlds. They prize treasures drawn from different worlds of the Material Plane, especially magic items and artworks that highlight the unique nature of different worlds. Magic items that allow teleportation or travel between planes, spellbooks filled with similar magic, and treatises examining the nature of the multiverse form the centerpiece of an amethyst dragon’s hoard.

We can also learn a lot about what amethyst dragons like / are like by looking at the personality traits and adventure hooks tables:

 

[Necropolitan]

And I did brign the "dragosn are inherently evil" because, asi I expected, all your arguments on the side of Dragons boil down to the very same thing as that argument - natu8re. You make assumptions that what is said about Dragon nature is inherently defining and set in stone, and cannot be overcame with nurture. Which I already pointed out is a kind of attitude towards lore I am glad to see gone, as seen with the Drow example above.

That's an obvious strawman and you completely ignored the rest of what I wrote to focus on it. It's literally listed under Amethyst Dragon "Society," no claims about their nature. So you're factually wrong again. And they are neutral on moral AND ethical grounds, they'd be telling Lawful Good Paladins to leave Demons alone going by all previous characterization.

There's zero evidence for your claims and the already existing evidence directly contradicts your claims. It's not 'nature,' it's the societies of both sides.

Amethyst dragons are chill and diplomatic? They prefer talking rather than fighting, but they're not isolationist

Emeralds are the paranoid batch who don't like dealing with other people. Amethysts aren't Crystal dragon friendly, sure, but they're not isolationist

Them championing independence is repeatedly listed. The majority of the time there's more than one of them it's because it's a family unit. They're famous for their neutrality to the point of arguing that Demons should be left alone.

Since gem dragons aren't in the revised MM, Fizban's is still the authoritative 5e source for information on them. Let's see what that book says about amethyst dragons:

Nothing there that would have them teaming up with the Purple Dragon Knights, who are incredibly focused on worldly matters. In fact it proves my point about their societal values.

Even if there were some threat from Aberrations/The Far Realm the Amethyst Dragons wouldn't be sending their children (who they value immensely) into battle. Especially tied to a knightly order infamous for violating the principles of noninterference Amethyst Dragon society values.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Them championing independence is repeatedly listed.

independent =/= isolationist

That's an obvious strawman and you completely ignored the rest of what I wrote to focus on it. It's literally listed under Amethyst Dragon "Society," no claims about their nature. So you're factually wrong again. And they are neutral on moral AND ethical grounds, they'd be telling Lawful Good Paladins to leave Demons alone going by all previous characterization.

Now you're just clinging to words like drowning man grasping at straws. The issue is that the old descriptions themselves come from assumptions their society is 100% shaped by their inherit nature and said nature cannot be changed in any way. You yourself just said that "based on previous characterisation" Amethyst Dragon raised by :LG Paladin will by its nature Neutral. A STRAWMAN of Neutral, btw, mischaracterization of Neutral on the level of "refuses to engage and coexist with anyone or anything because that's taking sides".

Also, Aligment is bad and defining what character will or not do by it is also bad. It leads to stereotypical characters with depth of a puddle. If this is basis of your definition of Amethyst Dragon I am glad they are throwing it away.

 

[pukunui]

Nothing there that would have them teaming up with the Purple Dragon Knights, who are incredibly focused on worldly matters. In fact it proves my point about their societal values.

I agree. So I am curious to see how WotC justifies this team-up.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

principles of noninterference Amethyst Dragon society values.

Them championing independence is repeatedly listed.

Those are mutually contradictory and BOTH are inrrecoicable with them being Neutral. If they value independence to the point they cannot tolerate other Amethyst Dragons or form a society, that is not Neutral, that is Chaotic. If they value principles of noninterference so much they cannot ever break them, even in face of potential crisis, they're not Neutral, they're Lawful. Moreover, if they champion independence, they would not be bound by principles of nonindeference so much it would be inconciveable for them to break them for any reason.

The more you are describing Amethyst Dragons, the more I think either their society makes less sense than Lolth's Drow society, or you are twisting the facts to suit your argument, making Amethyst Dragon Society be whatever you need it to be to win this discussion.

 

[bedir than]

Nothing there that would have them teaming up with the Purple Dragon Knights, who are incredibly focused on worldly matters. In fact it proves my point about their societal values.

I strongly disagree with this interpretation.
The personality traits aren't isolationist as previously demanded, but instead things like Noble Responsibility, Power, Balance exist -- quite knightly virtues.
Additionally, teaming up with earthly mortals if a Far Realm or time traveller type invades seems to fit that description perfectly.
Since we know there is a time travel element to the new guides to the Realms, I think it's reasonable to think the amethysts are involved.

 

[Umbran]

Now you're just clinging to words like drowning man grasping at straws.

Mod Note:
And now you are making the argument personal.

There's several reasons one might do this - but none of them are about having a polite and rational discussion about a D&D subclass.

So, I'm going to ask you to not make any more pointed personal jabs or attacks, please and thanks.