D&D 5E (2024) What’s the difference between sorcerers, warlocks, and wizards?

[Minigiant]

Sorcerer Design didn't go far enough in design because the community was scared by the Playtest being a gish.

If the Playtest sorcerer was a blaster, sorcerer might have been more distinct from wizards.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Hmm. I think probably the different attribute reliance changes the likely character layout from skills to motivations.

Wizards make me think academia.

Sorcerors make me think pure power bounded by the power of self identity (charisma)

Not really sure what identity a Warlock brings to mind IMO, don't really like em much. As a DM, not a fan of shoehorning a patron into my story

 

[Aldarc]

Hmm. I think probably the different attribute reliance changes the likely character layout from skills to motivations.

Wizards make me think academia.

Sorcerors make me think pure power bounded by the power of self identity (charisma)

Not really sure what identity a Warlock brings to mind IMO, don't really like em much. As a DM, not a fan of shoehorning a patron into my story

Your story?

It would probably be better to write your story as a book.

 

[Hriston]

Your story?

It would probably be better to write your story as a book.

Right, I would think that if the warlock's patron features in the story, it's because it's the warlock's story.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Sorcerer Design didn't go far enough in design because the community was scared by the Playtest being a gish.

If the Playtest sorcerer was a blaster, sorcerer might have been more distinct from wizards.

Yeah and ironically I suspect they probably had blaster versions being designed, just the Draconic one wasn't. It's sad because the design was mostly pretty amazing and much more atmospheric than what we got Sorcerer-wise. The other silly thing was you had full access to armour but couldn't cast spells in it at all (?!?!?!) - really dumb design for a Gish, and one that didn't survive to 5E at all. I suspect that made it playtest worse than it should have, because PCs would have to have been constantly equipping and unequipping armour.

 

[Voadam]

Things on the sorcerer spell list that stood out to me (Mostly stuff that was previously druid). Looking back I realize a couple were in the 14 sorcerer as well, so this is more a 5e difference than a 24 one.

I played and DMd a bunch of sorcerers in the 3e/Pathfinder 1e era (a lot of NPCs) but none in the 4e or 5e eras so far so I am used to them having a wizard spell list with a little cut out, not having stuff that wizards do not get.

Cantrips (Level 0 Sorcerer Spells)
Spell School Special
Acid Splash Evocation —
Chill Touch Necromancy —
Dancing Lights Illusion C
Elementalism Transmutation —
Fire Bolt Evocation —
Light Evocation —
Mage Hand Conjuration —
Mending Transmutation —
Message Transmutation —
Minor Illusion Illusion —
Poison Spray Necromancy —
Prestidigitation Transmutation —
Ray of Frost Evocation —
Shocking Grasp Evocation —
Sorcerous Burst Evocation —
True Strike Divination —

Level 1 Sorcerer Spells
Spell School Special
Burning Hands Evocation —
Charm Person Enchantment —
Chromatic Orb Evocation M
Color Spray Illusion —
Comprehend Languages Divination R
Detect Magic Divination C, R
Disguise Self Illusion —
Expeditious Retreat Transmutation C
False Life Necromancy –
Feather Fall Transmutation —
Fog Cloud Conjuration C
Grease Conjuration —
Ice Knife Conjuration —
Jump Transmutation —
Mage Armor Abjuration —
Magic Missile Evocation —
Ray of Sickness Necromancy —
Shield Abjuration —
Silent Image Illusion C
Sleep Enchantment C
Thunderwave Evocation —

Level 2 Sorcerer Spells
Spell School Special
Alter Self Transmutation C
Blindness/Deafness Transmutation —
Blur Illusion C
Darkness Evocation C
Darkvision Transmutation —
Detect Thoughts Divination C
Dragon’s Breath Transmutation C
Enhance Ability Transmutation C
Enlarge/Reduce Transmutation C
Flame Blade Evocation C
Flaming Sphere Evocation C
Gust of Wind Evocation C
Hold Person Enchantment C
Invisibility Illusion C
Knock Transmutation —
Levitate Transmutation C
Magic Weapon Transmutation —
Mirror Image Illusion —
Misty Step Conjuration —
Scorching Ray Evocation —
See Invisibility Divination —
Shatter Evocation —
Spider Climb Transmutation C
Suggestion Enchantment C
Web Conjuration C

Level 3 Sorcerer Spells
Spell School Special
Blink Transmutation —
Clairvoyance Divination C, M
Counterspell Abjuration —
Daylight Evocation —
Dispel Magic Abjuration —
Fear Illusion C
Fireball Evocation —
Fly Transmutation C
Gaseous Form Transmutation C
Haste Transmutation C
Hypnotic Pattern Illusion C
Lightning Bolt Evocation —
Major Image Illusion C
Protection from Energy Abjuration C
Sleet Storm Conjuration C
Slow Transmutation C
Stinking Cloud Conjuration C
Tongues Divination —
Vampiric Touch Necromancy C
Water Breathing Transmutation R
Water Walk Transmutation R

Level 4 Sorcerer Spells
Spell School Special
Banishment Abjuration C
Blight Necromancy —
Charm Monster Enchantment —
Confusion Enchantment C
Dimension Door Conjuration —
Dominate Beast Enchantment C
Fire Shield Evocation —
Greater Invisibility Illusion C
Ice Storm Evocation —
Polymorph Transmutation C
Stoneskin Transmutation C, M
Vitriolic Sphere Evocation —
Wall of Fire Evocation C

Level 5 Sorcerer Spells
Spell School Special
Animate Objects Transmutation C
Arcane Hand Evocation C
Cloudkill Conjuration C
Cone of Cold Evocation —
Creation Illusion —
Dominate Person Enchantment C
Hold Monster Enchantment C
Insect Plague Conjuration C
Seeming Illusion —
Telekinesis Transmutation C
Teleportation Circle Conjuration M
Wall of Stone Evocation C

Level 6 Sorcerer Spells
Spell School Special
Chain Lightning Evocation —
Circle of Death Necromancy M
Disintegrate Transmutation —
Eyebite Necromancy C
Flesh to Stone Transmutation C
Freezing Sphere Evocation —
Globe of Invulnerability Abjuration C
Mass Suggestion Enchantment —
Move Earth Transmutation C
Sunbeam Evocation C
True Seeing Divination M

Level 7 Sorcerer Spells
Spell School Special
Delayed Blast Fireball Evocation C
Etherealness Conjuration —
Finger of Death Necromancy —
Fire Storm Evocation —
Plane Shift Conjuration M
Prismatic Spray Evocation —
Reverse Gravity Transmutation C
Teleport Conjuration —

Level 8 Sorcerer Spells
Spell School Special
Demiplane Conjuration —
Dominate Monster Enchantment C
Earthquake Transmutation C
Incendiary Cloud Conjuration C
Power Word Stun Enchantment —
Sunburst Evocation —

Level 9 Sorcerer Spells
Spell School Special
Gate Conjuration C, M
Meteor Swarm Evocation —
Power Word Kill Enchantment —
Time Stop Transmutation —
Wish Conjuration —

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Right, I would think that if the warlock's patron features in the story, it's because it's the warlock's story.

It's an opinion. But if I have a whole bunch of enriched world-building, I don't love the fact that the class forces me to suddenly insert another major power player into my campaign. I didn't really think my DM style would get attacked saying that I don't like adding another powerful figure into my world. To me this is a big downside to the Warlock. Others post that as a story point advantage.. but there's another side to that

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't love the fact that the class forces me to suddenly insert another major power player into my campaign

It doesn't though. Like, really, it doesn't.

The Warlock's patron doesn't have to feature in the campaign at all. It could, or... not... I mean, if you've played BG3, compare how much Warlock Tav's patron features (barely at all, and optionally) to how much Wyll's does (a ton, and as a major part of the plot intertwining with the backstory of another companion even).

You, as the DM, have the choice to go anywhere on that scale. It's like, 1-10 and it seems like you're acting like it only goes between 8 and 10.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah and ironically I suspect they probably had blaster versions being designed, just the Draconic one wasn't. It's sad because the design was mostly pretty amazing and much more atmospheric than what we got Sorcerer-wise. The other silly thing was you had full access to armour but couldn't cast spells in it at all (?!?!?!) - really dumb design for a Gish, and one that didn't survive to 5E at all. I suspect that made it playtest worse than it should have, because PCs would have to have been constantly equipping and unequipping armour.

It was a bad showing for a first option.

Had it been a wild sorcerer who could spend sorcery points to invoke Wild Surges or chaotic explosions on a standard mage chassis, it would have tested better.

And they could have left in Dragon Breath and such as a hint to how subclasses worked.

 

[SkidAce]

It's an opinion. But if I have a whole bunch of enriched world-building, I don't love the fact that the class forces me to suddenly insert another major power player into my campaign. I didn't really think my DM style would get attacked saying that I don't like adding another powerful figure into my world. To me this is a big downside to the Warlock. Others post that as a story point advantage.. but there's another side to that

You're cool.

There is occasionally an instinctive backlash here at EN world when a DM says "my story".
Even though the DM is usually talking about their shared game as a whole.