D&D General Does anyone else starting to feel like FR: HoF & FR: AiF were starved of resources because of the Core Books

[Amphytrion]

I agree that the books are somewhat sloppy, but I’m not sure I agree that lack of public playtesting was the issue. You can’t really playtest narrative or research, even if the team was just strapped for time.

I’m making my way through Adventures of Faerûn, and there’s still quite a lot to read, but I did notice some slip ups in research, as you say. For example, they mention Fzoul Chembryl died. This is true, he did die, but he was promptly resurrected in what I think was the exact same product, maybe even the same paragraph (the 4e FR campaign book). Somehow the designers clearly missed this, which I imagine must be because they checked his murky FR wiki page rather than the actual 4e book. (This is particularly amusing because Justice Arman worked on a DMs Guild product that prominently featured a living Fzoul, following 4e’s history, so he would have known this if they had asked him!). I’ve bumped into a few other bits of these snafus thus far. These don’t bother me too much except to wish they relied more on their internal archive (and possibly hire someone to manage it!).

What does bother me is that the books seem like a step down from prior 5e entries, as if it’s actively unlearning design lessons honed from Ravnica to Theros to Fizban’s to Bigby’s. Stuff like solid DM support for running FR factions, DM advice on incorporating the FR gods, using one map to describe multiple possible adventures, etc. I’m quite disappointed so far, especially since I am very fond of Jason Trondo’s other project, the Book of Many Things, and I do run FR all the time. I’ve posted on HoF on its respective thread, and I’ll reserve a fuller rundown for the AoF book after I’m done reading it, but thus far I only like bits of it (like the introduction) and don’t see myself using it much at all.

All that aside, they fixed Hank’s haircut! Praise Bahamut!

 

[Henadic Theologian]

It doesn't look "broken" just potentially annoying (like Wild magic).

Wild Magic is good, but not broken, it is the target that many of the weak feats failed to meet. It's less broken and more good vs bad feats.

Edit: my brain confused Wild Magic for Genie Magic, the basic point remains, the core problem is weak feats, not broken feats. There are a bunch of great feats still.

 

[Zeromaru X]

They are interested in locations that lean in to certain types of adventure, not interested in writing fake-histories of places the PCs are never likely to visit.

But I was here for the fake stories too, not only the adventures. I think they are losing a part of the customers base by doing that.

WotC don't pay its staff enough for them to read through the vast pile of largely terrible novels.

They don't have to, though. A lot of people is already doing that for free, and updating the Wiki. They can read the Wiki and get their conclusions from it. They do know about the Wiki, because they pointed people searching for more to it.

They obviously don't want to that, but the excuse of "it's a lot of novels, they are awfully bad, and they don't pay enough" is a poor excuse.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

But I was here for the fake stories too, not only the adventures. I think they are losing a part of the customers base by doing that.



They don't have to, though. A lot of people is already doing that for free, and updating the Wiki. They can read the Wiki and get their conclusions from it. They do know about the Wiki, because they pointed people searching for more to it.

They obviously don't want to that, but the excuse of "it's a lot of novels, they are awfully bad, and they don't pay enough" is a poor excuse.

Perhaps the best post in the thread from someone who gets it.

But I don't buy into the places PC won't visit thing, because they entire setting is designed as being filled with interesting locations to visit from North to South, From East to West.

I will admitted they liked segmenting areas into particular themes or themes within themes. So like the Lands of Intrigue with its politics themes and Calimshan with its steam punk, Arabian Nights subtheme within that broader theme.

Honestly the Guide To Faerun Chapter was good enough, but really should have been bigger, they show have cut the items chapter and the factions chapters to expand it.

And Icewind Dale and BG chapters should have been replaced with newer places, like Frostmaiden does Icewind Dale Gazeteer better as BG: DitA does BG better anyways.

I personally think Unther and Aglarond made for better choices and fresher themes instead of two retreats that 5e has already done better.

 

[Parmandur]

And Icewind Dale and BG chapters should have been replaced with newer places, like Frostmaiden does Icewind Dale Gazeteer better as BG: DitA does BG better anyways.

I personally think Unther and Aglarond made for better choices and fresher themes instead of two retreats that 5e has already done better.

I do agree with that, I think a couple places further afield would have been good: the Sword Coazt material on the Campaigns is pretty great, just pointing to those is solid.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But I was here for the fake stories too, not only the adventures. I think they are losing a part of the customers base by doing that

There have always been a small cohort of customers who like to obsess over setting lore, and at one time they were targeted specifically by churning out low quality products that were required to keep up with the lore. But they haven’t been the target market for WotC for a long time, as they have tried to make D&D more mainstream.

They don't have to, though. A lot of people is already doing that for free, and updating the Wiki. They can read the Wiki and get their conclusions from it. They do know about the Wiki, because they pointed people searching for more to it

They aren’t paid enough to read the wiki from cover to cover and memorise it either. For people who like that sort of thing it’s hard to understand just how boring and hard to remember most people find that stuff. I’ve no doubt they refer to the wiki, but WotC staff (many of whom were born after the books were popular) simply do not know this stuff anything like as well as some fans do.

 

[TheSword]

For classic setting products like Planescape, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer you are far too generous. I'd give Ravenloft a 4 or 5. Planescape a 3 and except for the Spelljammer races, which were 10s, I'd give Spelljammer slipcase a 1. Only the Eberron Books get higher then a 6, those were well made because they had the right guy heading the problem.

Look I'm sure Tondo did his best, it probably isn't all his fault, honestly he did way better then I was expecting, I'm not hating on Tondo, but it should have been Erin M Evans heading this thing instead, she's brilliant at integrating lore from different editions. She is the one who made Dragonborn and Infernal Tieflings cool in FR.

I mean I'm frustrated at the short cuts and the wasted space, but I still enjoy the product, its just I see dozens of things they should have done to make it better and it haunts me.

Oh well there is always 6th edition.

When I see scoring like it just makes me sad because it points towards unreasonable expectations. Planescape is a 3… that just makes no sense at all. It’s a lovely set capturing so much of the cool things about Planescape.

If I’m honest I was expecting zero 4e Abeir content as this was a return to the 2e/3e roots of the setting. They have still written the locations to allow space for lovers of 4e which is pretty good of them rather than writing this stuff out completely following the second sundering. The fact that they have mentioned the ruins of Brassune is a pretty good Easter egg. I’d take it.

This campaign book doesn’t and shouldn’t try to be exhaustive. All that leads to is an unreadable encyclopedia and a filmy, flimsy setting. They intended to drill down into some key areas and cherry pick details to bring campaigns to life. They have done a pretty darn good job of it.

Caveat… I would say this, because the area I wanted (the Dalelands) is being covered well. I can imagine it would be frustrating for someone who’s favorite area is Aglarond to be passed over.

 

[Zeromaru X]

There have always been a small cohort of customers who like to obsess over setting lore, and at one time they were targeted specifically by churning out low quality products that were required to keep up with the lore. But they haven’t been the target market for WotC for a long time, as they have tried to make D&D more mainstream.

More than obsessing with lore is that I find hard to believe someone is willing to pay 60 dollars for a couple of adventures they can improvise for free at home.

The idea of playing in a pre-made setting, at least for me, is that you were buying that fictional narrative. If I have to make the narrative myself, then I prefer to make my homebrew world or play with the Greyhawk example in the DMG. It'll save me a lot of money.

 

[Parmandur]

More than obsessing with lore is that I find hard to believe someone is willing to pay 60 dollars for a couple of adventures they can improvise for free at home.

It might make more sense if you look at it as a year of weekly casual play. This is a game product, for people who play a game: a ton of actionable game material is what most people are looking for, obviously.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

More than obsessing with lore is that I find hard to believe someone is willing to pay 60 dollars for a couple of adventures they can improvise for free at home.

The idea of playing in a pre-made setting, at least for me, is that you were buying that fictional narrative. If I have to make the narrative myself, then I prefer to make my homebrew world or play with the Greyhawk example in the DMG. It'll save me a lot of money.

People are different. As you say, they are sacrificing one part of the market, in order to attract a different, larger market.

As for me, I certainly don’t expect the setting to provide a narrative. My players and I do that. I’m just looking for the setting to provide a bit of background fluff. I could, and have in the past, done that myself. But frankly, it’s boring and I would rather pay someone else to do it.