Wizards of the Coast Re-Registers Dark Sun With USPTO

Wizards of the Coast recently filed an application to register Dark Sun in the US, a sign that D&D could be bringing back the campaign setting in the near future. The trademark claim was filed on October 13th, 2025 and is poised to replace a previous trademark that was cancelled by the USPTO in 2024. The trademark, like most involving D&D properties, covers both "downloadable electronic games," "games and playthings," and "entertainment services." Similar active trademarks exist for other D&D campaign settings such as Spelljammer and Forgotten Realms, although neither of those have lapsed in recent years.

We'll note that, as the previous Dark Sun trademark lapsed a year ago, this could be a case of simple paperwork, or it could be the latest sign that a Dark Sun product is eminent. Earlier this year, Wizards released an Unearthed Arcana for the Psion class and several subclasses that all but spelled out a return to the setting, complete with mentions of sorcerer-kings, gladiatorial fights, and preservers and defilers.

 

[Remathilis]

yes, TSR did that. Was it needed to create DS? I don’t think so.

Change the fluff of the races and classes and keep the mechanics. Keep the standard stat generation. Overlay preserving and defiling on the spellcasters.

You will have somewhat different equipment, at least as far as name and description are concerned, but that is a handful of pages.

The main difference is the fluff, there never was a need to rewrite most of the mechanics

See, that's what I think will happen and it's what should happen. But the fact remains that there are going to be a lot of DS fans who will howl at the betrayal.

 

[Incenjucar]

Howling about howling aside, Dark Sun Classic was a demonstration of how far from core a campaign can be while still working at a large scale. Modern games are full of optional rules and flavor suggestions that can add up to something like Dark Sun. It's evidence that you could also build a functional setting around, say, an aquatic world where electro-psionic auras power the undead and love powers magic and weapons are grown or scavanged because forging isn't a real option.

 

[Superchunk77]

If the new DS is as good an update as VRG was, then it will be just fine…

Not in my books.

I mean, this is largely a taste thing, isn’t it? I thought VGR was a vast improvement on the 2nd edition boxed set, which I thought was a dumpster fire before dumpster fires were famous. And I really enjoyed Radiant Citadel.

If you thought Radiant Citadel was good, well, then I'll just agree to vehemently disagree.

 

[Superchunk77]

Unlikely. Like, not remotely probable.

And yet it is.

 

[mamba]

See, that's what I think will happen and it's what should happen.

I expect it to happen, and it is what should be done

But the fact remains that there are going to be a lot of DS fans who will howl at the betrayal.

no idea how many will, some obviously always do. I like DS and I am fully on board with what I laid out, the details in the fluff are far more of interest to me than the large scale mechanics of DS, so to me the question is more about those.

A few people complaining is not something that should stop WotC though. They always exist, no matter which direction WotC takes, so they might as well ignore them

 

[mamba]

Not in my books.

I am aware, but in sales and reviews it was, and that is what ultimately matters, not one individual’s opinion

 

[Superchunk77]

Nah my dude, part of the pitch for DS is that it took all the D&D tropes and flipped them 180 degrees. Every race is different, every class heavily modified, the default psionics system, arcane magic dangerous, divine magic changed or non-existent. Almost all the classic D&D monsters don't have a place, and equipment is radically different. Almost no part of the 2e PHB exists in DS unaltered by design. They wanted to change everything and make it as different as they could while still keeping the basic system resolution intact. It's as close to the 2e Core Rules as d20 Star Wars was to Core 3e.

New Dark Sun will have to hew closer to the expectations of the Core Rules. 4e already provided that template. Gone were the alternative ability score generation, the radically different designs for races and classes. Most of the wild rules changes are now just skins over the PHB equivalent. Dark Sun may still be D&D's wild child, but it's learned to wear shoes and eat with a fork. The setting is beholden to the rules, not vice versa.

I think if you rephrase your original point to "Dark Sun is anti-Tolkien D&D" then it comes across a bit clearer. Which vibes with your first point.

And you are correct about the 4e Dark Sun books. There were only 2 innovations in the 4e Dark Sun rules beyond what the core 4e experience provided. Character Themes and Supply Day / Heat Exhaustion rules. Everything else in those books was just regular 4e stuff with a Dark Sun skin stretched over it.

 

[Superchunk77]

Change the fluff of the races and classes and keep the mechanics. Keep the standard stat generation. Overlay preserving and defiling on the spellcasters.

Then there's already a problem if you're looking through the UA. It appears that they're tying defiling to sorcerers as a subclass. This was never how arcane magic worked on Athas. Even the 4e Dark Sun books at least recognized that, albeit, implemented it in a rather unsatisfying way.

You will have somewhat different equipment, at least as far as name and description are concerned, but that is a handful of pages.

Inferior weapon materials has kind of already been covered in some of the older 5e books. Probably wouldn't need a whole rules subsystem to manage it again.

The main difference is the fluff, there never was a need to rewrite most of the mechanics

But there was a necessity to rewrite some. A lot of ideas put forth in the orginal Dark Sun didn't have mechanics yet in 2e. Those rules innovations became central to the theme and tone of the setting. By removing them, or simplifying them to the point of being "fluff" you end up watering down the setting as a whole.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

yes, TSR did that. Was it needed to create DS? I don’t think so.

Change the fluff of the races and classes and keep the mechanics. Keep the standard stat generation. Overlay preserving and defiling on the spellcasters.

You will have somewhat different equipment, at least as far as name and description are concerned, but that is a handful of pages.

The main difference is the fluff, there never was a need to rewrite most of the mechanics

You agree with that and I agree with that (and fans of the 4e Dark Sun had to agree with that) but... there's a group of DS fans who will definitely never agree with that.

But I don't think that matters. The group is small, if loud, and the rest of us can enjoy D&D refluffed to suit Dark Sun. We'll just have to put up with some noise.

 

[mamba]

Then there's already a problem if you're looking through the UA. It appears that they're tying defiling to sorcerers as a subclass. This was never how arcane magic worked on Athas.

agreed, let’s see what the final product is though. The preserver was a problem altogether, it did not preserve anything.

But there was a necessity to rewrite some. A lot of ideas put forth in the orginal Dark Sun didn't have mechanics yet in 2e. Those rules innovations became central to the theme and tone of the setting. By removing them, or simplifying them to the point of being "fluff" you end up watering down the setting as a whole.

there isn’t really much that is needed. Have 10 pages of additional (not replacement) mechanics if you think they are needed, not counting races and subclasses.

90% can be handled in the fluff, and that would have been true for 2e as well