D&D 5E (2024) Thoughts on New Bladesinger?

[Zardnaar]

As far as wizards go I like this one along with the illusionist.

But its still a wizard. A few of you probably know my opinions on wizards. Theyre a D tier class that becomes S tier. My main issue with them the amount of time it takes to become S tier (generally level 10+). They're to limited resources wise before that. Tier 1 every other spellcaster is better.

I liked the old bladesinger as well and saw it in play. Generally used more as a super concentration build. It's damage was to low to really matter outside shadow blade. Good class failed concept to much wizard not enough gish. May as well skip the gish part.

New one when I saw it didn't go to using weapons but conjure Minor Elemental plus scorching ray. This might vary on how the DM does magic items. Still takes a while to come online and youre going to run out of spells slots fast.

So good class but failed concept yet again?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Dunno, I think it need the blade cantrips to really work, with them it is pretty decent.

 

[Bladesinger]

True Strike is a good substitute for the Blade Cantrips right now, and overall, I think it is better, but I lament the loss of Light Armor, as I love the armored fighter mage concept, and Eldritch Knight and Warlock just don't fit the bill for me.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

As far as wizards go I like this one along with the illusionist.

But its still a wizard. A few of you probably know my opinions on wizards. Theyre a D tier class that becomes S tier. My main issue with them the amount of time it takes to become S tier (generally level 10+). They're to limited resources wise before that. Tier 1 every other spellcaster is better.

I liked the old bladesinger as well and saw it in play. Generally used more as a super concentration build. It's damage was to low to really matter outside shadow blade. Good class failed concept to much wizard not enough gish. May as well skip the gish part.

New one when I saw it didn't go to using weapons but conjure Minor Elemental plus scorching ray. This might vary on how the DM does magic items. Still takes a while to come online and youre going to run out of spells slots fast.

So good class but failed concept yet again?

Still baffles me that you think the Wizard starts off D-tier, but whatever.

Beyond that, the Bladesinger looks pretty much exactly the same as it was before, I'm really not seeing major changes here.

True Strike is a good substitute for the Blade Cantrips right now, and overall, I think it is better, but I lament the loss of Light Armor, as I love the armored fighter mage concept, and Eldritch Knight and Warlock just don't fit the bill for me.

While I know homebrew solutions are much more problematic than most 5e boosters would like folks to believe...if you know your GM well, you could probably sell them on letting you have your Background feat be the custom effect that you can do Bladesong while wearing light armor? That's arguably a nerf early on, since non-magical light armor is inherently inferior to mage armor, which stacks with the Bladesong effect (as that is a "bonus to your AC", not an alternative AC calculation the way mage armor is). You need a suit of +2 studded leather to exceed the bonus mage armor would give.

 

[ECMO3]

Dunno, I think it need the blade cantrips to really work, with them it is pretty decent.

Truestrike is a pretty good substitute.

 

[ECMO3]

Beyond that, the Bladesinger looks pretty much exactly the same as it was before, I'm really not seeing major changes here.

IF you play a weapons-first bladesinger being able to use Intelligence for attacks is a pretty big buff as it lets you concentrate on Intel. If you are wanting a Wizard with some defense then it is not a big deal.

The big thing the new bladesinger lacks is weapon mastery. With a 1-level Ranger dip though it is pretty awesome. A Fighter dip works too, although you lose a casting level.

 

[Zardnaar]

Still baffles me that you think the Wizard starts off D-tier, but whatever.

Beyond that, the Bladesinger looks pretty much exactly the same as it was before, I'm really not seeing major changes here.


While I know homebrew solutions are much more problematic than most 5e boosters would like folks to believe...if you know your GM well, you could probably sell them on letting you have your Background feat be the custom effect that you can do Bladesong while wearing light armor? That's arguably a nerf early on, since non-magical light armor is inherently inferior to mage armor, which stacks with the Bladesong effect (as that is a "bonus to your AC", not an alternative AC calculation the way mage armor is). You need a suit of +2 studded leather to exceed the bonus mage armor would give.

Its because theyre outclassed by every other spellcaster class at being a spellcaster. Warlocks laugh at them for example. Martials outdamage them by a lot. They dont get many spells, weak AoEs and lack of additional resources eg bard dice, channel divinity etc.

Light cleric packing radiance of the dawn, moon Druids etc. Sorcerer with twin spell.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Its because theyre outclassed by every other spellcaster class at being a spellcaster. Warlocks laugh at them for example. Martials outdamage them by a lot. They dont get many spells, weak AoEs and lack of additional resources eg bard dice, channel divinity etc.

Light cleric packing radiance of the dawn, moon Druids etc. Sorcerer with twin spell.

And I just completely do not see that, at all, to even the tiniest degree.

Show me the numbers, then I'll buy it.

 

[Zardnaar]

And I just completely do not see that, at all, to even the tiniest degree.

Show me the numbers, then I'll buy it.

Its not something numbers can prove except basic damage.

Look at wizards vs a lvl 2 warlock with 3 invocations for origin feats druid, cleric and wizard. Even at 3 and 4 it just has more resources.

Same thing with cleric and druids. Depends on subclass though.

 

[Zardnaar]

And I just completely do not see that, at all, to even the tiniest degree.

Show me the numbers, then I'll buy it.

Generally I look at the following.

Frequency
Impact
Value
Synergy

Portent for example. Very powerful. Frequency only 2/day though and depends on dice rolls which drops it more.

Barbarian rage. Functionally every encounter. High frequency. Impact. A lot big tick. Value. Lots of damage always good. Synergy depends.

So I rate rage fairly high for example.