When Player Driven Adventures Don't Pan Out

[Micah Sweet]

But do they know when they are meant to tackle it? How long is the so-called "long game"? Is it meant to be in three levels? Six? Not until they are in the high teens? I can't speak for Reynard's players... but if I was at this table and knew the endgame was this Big Bad and was also told "Go do stuff in the meantime. Whatever you want!"... my thoughts would not be to just go looking for dungeons to crawl or caravans to escort. Not when I have no idea when this BBEG is showing up or I'm meant to engage with him.

That's just one of the possible issues that might be at play here as to why the players are not engaging with pursuing their own personal goals. Now it might not be the actual issue for the players... none of us have any idea why they are choosing not to engage with the player-facing adventuring... but it's an idea to consider. If it ends up being wrong... so be it.

Well, this why you and I are different people, because I would go about my life, doing what I wanted, all the while looking for ways to become stronger (training, gear, allies, etc) until I felt I was ready to make that push. I would expect that task to realistically take years maybe.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Well, this why you and I are different people, because I would go about my life, doing what I wanted, all the while looking for ways to become stronger (training, gear, allies, etc) until I felt I was ready to make that push. I would expect that task to realistically take years maybe.

Then why are you hitting 'Reply' to my post and talking to me about it when Reynard was the one asking for people's experiences? If you want Reynard to know your opinions on the matter, then Reply to them. Telling me how you play your game serves no purpose.

 

[Reynard]

But do they know when they are meant to tackle it? How long is the so-called "long game"? Is it meant to be in three levels? Six? Not until they are in the high teens? I can't speak for Reynard's players... but if I was at this table and knew the endgame was this Big Bad and was also told "Go do stuff in the meantime. Whatever you want!"... my thoughts would not be to just go looking for dungeons to crawl or caravans to escort. Not when I have no idea when this BBEG is showing up or I'm meant to engage with him.

That's just one of the possible issues that might be at play here as to why the players are not engaging with pursuing their own personal goals. Now it might not be the actual issue for the players... none of us have any idea why they are choosing not to engage with the player-facing adventuring... but it's an idea to consider. If it ends up being wrong... so be it.

So a couple things for clarity:

The players all know that the goal is to be high teens before confronting the Usurper. This was discussed openly at the outset, because the goal of the campaign is to test D&D 2024 through the level spread (also why we are fast leveling).

And I don't want to over-emphasize "players pursuing their own personal goal." That is a good thing when it happens, and one player is really embracing it. But I am more talking about getting the players to decide what they are doing next, particularly during table sessions. It has worked on and off -- the players went after the petrified wizards on their won, essentially; same with the Tiamat hoard. But as we have gotten farther along it became more like pulling teeth to get them to decide what to do next despite many discussions about the possibilities.

Again, I don't want to make it sound dire. I put something directly in front of them and they bit. Awesome. Love it. But what I was hoping for was "Here's three things; pick one." and that has happened less than I would like.

I do think many (maybe most) players prefer to be presented with something to deal with, even ones that really like agency.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then why are you hitting 'Reply' to my post and talking to me about it when Reynard was the one asking for people's experiences? If you want Reynard to know your opinions on the matter, then Reply to them. Telling me how you play your game serves no purpose.

Oh, I already have. And telling you serves the purpose of letting you know my mind, just like your public post let's everyone who reads it know yours.

 

[Reynard]

The trick with player-driven gaming is to make sure the PCs each have several really solid, specific, and actionable goals baked in before you start play. Short term, mid term, and long term. Though, of course, they can change and update over time. Just having a solid start and end goal with everything in between as loose is going to fall apart. It's the loose middle you get in a lot of novels.

It wasn't a totally blank slate -- there are factions and sites etc -- but yeah, I think you are right. I was hoping to split the difference between sandbox prep and player driven and I did not quite hit the mark.

I can't recommend enough the Game Master's Handbook of Proactive Roleplaying.

I will have to look into that.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Oh, I already have. And telling you serves the purpose of letting you know my mind, just like your public post let's everyone who reads it know yours.

Okay, well just so you know... in the future it isn't really necessary to let me know directly about your opinions regarding other people's posts. I will see your opinions if/when I read your posts to other people.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Okay, well just so you know... in the future it isn't really necessary to let me know directly about your opinions regarding other people's posts. I will see your opinions if/when I read your posts to other people.

Ok. Sorry, I didn't realize that was a problem for you.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Even in a player-driven game, it's okay to have external events that they have to react to now and then. That's life, and it shows that the world is in motion beyond just what they do.

In my experience, some players are good at pursuing their goals and some look for the GM to serve their goal hooks up to them.

 

[zarionofarabel]

At least, not exclusively on the character sheet, yes. Mechanical rewards are fine by me if they are associated with a real thing in the fiction.

This will probably make me sound like a dummy, but that's normal for me...

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Is it possible for you to provide an example?

 

[Micah Sweet]

This will probably make me sound like a dummy, but that's normal for me...

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Is it possible for you to provide an example?

The advantage and/or inspiration to which you are referring is a reward to the player for what the GM considers positive behavior. It has nothing to do with the world and is not representative of anything in the setting. I personally don't like those kinds of rewards and avoid them. If you want to give a reward, give it to the PC through the fiction. Perhaps in the form of a gift from an ally or prominent NPC. It could be a physical gift, like a magical cloak or pendant that provides a one-time advantage or inspiration, or it could be immaterial, like a blessing. Either way it exists in the fiction.