D&D General [+] For (hypothetical) 6e: Which arcane caster class should be the "simple" one?

[Horwath]

Simple Caster, nothing but cantrips, number known equal to prof, swap one on level up.

at least 2×prof bonus.
or
start with 3, damage scales at every odd level, new cantrip at every odd level. Total of 12 at 19th level

even levels are for feats and class features that additionally buff cantrips:

1st level: removal of spell components for cantrips
2nd level: +casting mod to damage
6th level: Fast casting: casting mod per Long rest(LR) to cast Action cantrips as Bonus action, +1 use on Short rest(SR)
10th level: concentrate on 2 cantrips at a time
18th level: cast mod per LR, +1 usage on SR: max damage on cantrips
20th level: improved Fast casting: 2×casting mod per day(+cast mod per SR):
Either 2 cantrips as an Action or 1 cantrip as Bonus action

 

[Minigiant]

Simple Caster, nothing but cantrips, number known equal to prof, swap one on level up.

I did faster than Sorceror cantrips.
Bonus damage dice at 2, 10, 13, and 17
2 cantrips a turn at level 5
3 cantrip a turn at 20
Reroll dices at 7 and 15
Cantrips crit on 19-20 on attacks or 1-2 on saves at 9

Level	Proficiencies	Class Feature	Cantrips
1	+2	Spellcasting, Defensive Forte	5
2	+2	Heightened Cantrip (1 die), Offensive Forte	5
3	+2	Arcanist Subclass	5
4	+2	Ability Score Improvement	6
5	+3	Dual Cantrip	6
6	+3	Arcanist Subclass,	6
7	+3	Empowered Cantrip (1 die)	6
8	+3	Ability Score Improvement	6
9	+4	Critical Cantrip	7
10	+4	Heightened Cantrip (2 die)	7
11	+4	Offensive Forte	7
12	+4	Ability Score Improvement	7
13	+5	Heightened Cantrip (3 die)	7
14	+5	Arcanist Subclass	7
15	+5	Empowered Cantrip (2 die)	8
16	+5	Ability Score Improvement	8
17	+6	Heightened Cantrip (3 die), Offensive Forte	8
18	+6	Arcanist Subclass	8
19	+6	Epic Boon	8
20	+6	Triple Cantrip	9

Simple pew pew and utility cantrips

 

[CleverNickName]

Put me down for Warlock.

• No multiple spell slots across multiple levels
• Automatic upcasting
• Small spell list
• Small list of spells known
• Spell slots recover after a short rest

 

[tetrasodium]

• d6 hit die
• Class specific abilities rather than spells copied from other classes (at will or limited charge based)
• Give it newbie friendly training wheels in the form of those abilities being con based
• extra attack or similar linked to class level rather than making it an irresistible dip with something character level based.
• Mostly blaster focused simple gish leanings
• It should be designed to ensure finding treasure is exciting. No opt out from wanting to find treasure. Either normal armor or weapons being needed and expected by the class

 

[Blue]

Put me down for Warlock.

• No multiple spell slots across multiple levels
• Automatic upcasting
• Small spell list
• Small list of spells known
• Spell slots recover after a short rest

I don't disagree, but I'm not wholehearted with you.

Complexity has a couple of niches, and what you say address both of them: character creation (and advancement) and at-the-table play.

That said, there's more to the Warlock then what you talk about. EB, unless you're going up the melee route, is such a spell tax that not taking it is a trap option. Warlock has both patron and pact instead of just a single subclass, and in some cases like hexblade and path of the blade how they interact is important enough that you need to know about future choices and plan advancement early. In addition you've got not just spells but invocations to both read over during character creation and to use during play.

I've seen newer players forget that their warlock slots upcast and just use the base spells. I've seen new players not consider upcasting when picking spells, and having spells that haven't scaled and they have a very slow replacement rate. More places where a player can get semi-locked into choices that looked good at the time, that a more experienced player would consider how they scaled as well. In other words, additional complexity.

 

[Minigiant]

The main problem with Warlock being the simple arcane caster is although it can be simple...

... you have to know how to make it simple and run it simply.

And knowing that defeats the purpose.

A simple Warlock must be purposely built by a veteran player or DM to be simple for someone else.

Same with Sorcerer.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I think I would use the sorcerer, with the main gimmick being that each subclass gets a damage type. Every time the sorcerer casts a spell with a damage roll, the sorcerer adds 1 die's roll of damage of the subclass type's damage to the spell's damage. So, if you are a black dragon sorcery sorcerer and you cast fireball, all targets take 1d6 acid damage plus the fire damage. You also get resistance, eventually overcome resistance to the damage type, make it 2 die rolls' worth of damage, and as a capstone, you know one summon spell that you can cast as a 9th-level spell without a spell slot once per long rest (I figure summon spells don't get much use at high levels).

It makes the sorcerer a really good (but simple) blaster, and you can boost non-blasting stuff with the subclasses (plus bonus spells).

Wild magic: pick one of bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing (random objects appear and follow the spell's path); extra good buffing (especially transmutation spells) but the recipient gets a nonmechanical, but weird physical change. Summon Fey as the capstone.
Dragon: Pick one of acid, cold, fire, lightning, or poison. Enhanced spells that change or improve your AC. Summon Dragon as capstone.
Storm: Thunder. Spells that conjure or control water or wind can move things extra far (including the sorcerer moving safely). Summon Elemental as capstone.
Aberrant: Psychic. Enhanced enchantment spells. Summon Aberration or Summon Astral Entity as capstone.
Clockwork: Force. Enhanced spells that affect stuff that people can carry. Summon Construct as capstone.
Shadow: Necrotic. Spells that grant extra or special movement (like teleportation) work even better in the dark. Summon Undead or Summon Fiend as capstone.
Divine (or Spellfire): Radiant. Healing spells work really well. Summon Celestial as capstone.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The main problem with Warlock being the simple arcane caster is although it can be simple...

... you have to know how to make it simple and run it simply.

And knowing that defeats the purpose.

A simple Warlock must be purposely built by a veteran player or DM to be simple for someone else.

Same with Sorcerer.

Excellent. Thank you. This is a nice, concise explanation for why these classes, despite being capable of being simple, aren't.

You need system mastery to build one that is simple. If you receive from on high a pre-built Sorcerer or Warlock in 5e, it could quite easily be one of the simplest characters to play! But it has to have been put together by someone who knows the system very well, and knows how to pick the options that will be very simple to use.

 

[Minigiant]

Excellent. Thank you. This is a nice, concise explanation for why these classes, despite being capable of being simple, aren't.

You need system mastery to build one that is simple. If you receive from on high a pre-built Sorcerer or Warlock in 5e, it could quite easily be one of the simplest characters to play! But it has to have been put together by someone who knows the system very well, and knows how to pick the options that will be very simple to use.

Thats why I say the

• Simple Warrior
• Simple Expert
• Simple Arcane Caster
• Simple Divine Caster

Should be purposely built to manufacture the simple playstyle they are copying and only have 2-3 real choices classwise over their first 3 levels. One being their mysteries or cantrips. Another being amtheir subclass at level 3. And maybe but not neccessarily some choice at level 2.

No spells in the base skeleton.
No techniques in the base skeleton.

Just

"Johnny pick 5 cantrips."

 

[Horwath]

Just

"Johnny pick 5 cantrips."

Elementalist:

elemental ray.
range 150ft, ranged spell attack
damage 1d8/2 levels, round up. Pick damage type from Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison, Thunder

elemental burst
range 150ft, 10ft AoE, dex save
damage 1d6/2 levels, round up. Pick damage type from Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison, Thunder

Elemental slam:
melee spell attack
damage 1d12/2 levels, round up. Pick damage type from Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison, Thunder

Elemental blast
20ft AoE cone, dex save
damage 1d8/2 levels, round up. Pick damage type from Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison, Thunder

Elemental nova
10ft radius burst from you, dex save
damage 1d10/2 levels, round up. Pick damage type from Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison, Thunder