D&D General The "Ease of Long Rests" as a metric for describing campaigns / DM styles?

[jayoungr]

I’ve just eliminated the long rest. You get fully restored when you level up, which you can only do in some sort of sanctuary, no tiny huts. It’s worked fine for me, but my worlds and campaigns are largely a series of repurposed “one shots” others have written so I have a good sense of what they will face before that level and rest is available.

Do you use milestone leveling?

 

[Retros_x]

Ime it doesn't even matter at that point because the warlock sorlock pallylock bardlock and monk have guilted their group into joining them on so many short rests "because my class is designed to neeed those just to keep up" that the long rest classes never need to get aggressive enough with resource burn for the eventual long rest to matter.

But LR classes are not affected by short rests. If they don't need it in your games -> it seems exactly the imbalance I am talking about.

 

[tetrasodium]

But LR classes are not affected by short rests. If they don't need it in your games -> it seems exactly the imbalance I am talking about.

Exactly. SR classes benefit from a LR but don't need it so they just push for a SR, the same is not true the other way ar. Short rest classes singlehandedly level into a scenario where the all nova all the time output from 2+short rests per long removes the mere opportunity of going overboard from the long rest classes.

The design itself is broken and wotc has done nothing to support GM's with a corrected base class that shifts the SR classes to long. Nor have they provided gms with an evolved set of rest/recovery rules that support rather thwart the GM's ability to simply deny excess.. nor have they so much as admitted error with the 2 sr/long guidelines that provide players with ammunition should the gm simply attempt to declare excess.

Players don't want to be the jerk who needs to say no to SR class players so the gm attempting to do so does it alone while the table nopes out of the debate or just goes along with Alice & Bob's nova.

 

[Smackpixi]

Do you use milestone leveling?

Pretty much. As mentioned, I stitch together published stuff, so to avoid having rewrite a bunch of encounters, I want them at an appropriate level (not necessarily what the author states though). I would say, on average, that probably leads to overall slightly quicker leveling after 3 or 4.

I do also, as someone else suggested earlier, provide opportunities to gain a spell slot or hit dice, esp at very low levels. The goal isn’t to make it super hard, it’s to motivate using more options and making short rests a thing.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Exactly. SR classes benefit from a LR but don't need it so they just push for a SR, the same is not true the other way ar. Short rest classes singlehandedly level into a scenario where the all nova all the time output from 2+short rests per long removes the mere opportunity of going overboard from the long rest classes.

The design itself is broken and wotc has done nothing to support GM's with a corrected base class that shifts the SR classes to long. Nor have they provided gms with an evolved set of rest/recovery rules that support rather thwart the GM's ability to simply deny excess.. nor have they so much as admitted error with the 2 sr/long guidelines that provide players with ammunition should the gm simply attempt to declare excess.

Players don't want to be the jerk who needs to say no to SR class players so the gm attempting to do so does it alone while the table nopes out of the debate or just goes along with Alice & Bob's nova.

A small price to pay to eliminate "saminess"

 

[tetrasodium]

A small price to pay to eliminate "saminess"

Define "saminess". I don't think hardcore 5MWD on loop is the usual definition.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Define "saminess". I don't think hardcore 5MWD on loop is the usual definition.

You know, having classes operate under the same recovery structure like in 4E. Now players are in conflict over when to rest; just like Gygax intended!

 

[tetrasodium]

You know, having classes operate under the same recovery structure like in 4E. Now players are in conflict over when to rest; just like Gygax intended!

There is no "conflict" among players. Reread some of my earlier post.

Exactly. SR classes benefit from a LR but don't need it so they just push for a SR, the same is not true the other way ar. Short rest classes singlehandedly level into a scenario where the all nova all the time output from 2+short rests per long removes the mere opportunity of going overboard from the long rest classes.

The design itself is broken and wotc has done nothing to support GM's with a corrected base class that shifts the SR classes to long. Nor have they provided gms with an evolved set of rest/recovery rules that support rather thwart the GM's ability to simply deny excess.. nor have they so much as admitted error with the 2 sr/long guidelines that provide players with ammunition should the gm simply attempt to declare excess.

Players don't want to be the jerk who needs to say no to SR class players so the gm attempting to do so does it alone while the table nopes out of the debate or just goes along with Alice & Bob's nova.

The bold part especially. If you go back a couple pages you will also see detailed discussion over the actual conflict removed by 5e that old editions had

 

[...m...]

...gritty realism with lifestyle rest mechanics works well for me: reins in both five-minute adventuring days and five-week adventuring careers but, rather than playing mother-may-i with the DM, players retain full agency over where and how they rest, with sufficient granularity for their choices to matter...

WRETCHED - No rest benefits.
SQUALID - Staves Exhaustion only.
POOR - Short Rests only.
MODEST - Standard Long Rests (half hit-dice).
COMFORTABLE - Long Rests + all hit-dice.
WEALTHY - Half-duration Long Rests + all hit-dice.
ARISTROCRATIC - Wealthy Long Rest + Inspiration.

...another version i've read keeps long rests a consistent duration but gives inspiration for wealthy rests and adds (character level) temporary hit points for aristocratic rests...in either case, it couples well with slow natural healing if you want to cultivate a lot of campaign downtime...

 

[Scott Christian]

...gritty realism with lifestyle rest mechanics works well for me: reins in both five-minute adventuring days and five-week adventuring careers but, rather than playing mother-may-i with the DM, players retain full agency over where and how they rest, with sufficient granularity for their choices to matter...

WRETCHED - No rest benefits.
SQUALID - Staves Exhaustion only.
POOR - Short Rests only.
MODEST - Standard Long Rests (half hit-dice).
COMFORTABLE - Long Rests + all hit-dice.
WEALTHY - Half-duration Long Rests + all hit-dice.
ARISTROCRATIC - Wealthy Long Rest + Inspiration.

...another version i've read keeps long rests a consistent duration but gives inspiration for wealthy rests and adds (character level) temporary hit points for aristocratic rests...in either case, it couples well with slow natural healing if you want to cultivate a lot of campaign downtime...

I've used something similar for a different system.
No Rest: Sailing on a ship through a rough storm
Rugged Rest: Camping in the wilderness (dealing with insects, weather, etc) and/or worrying about your safety
Comfortable Rest: A home, nice inn, etc..