D&D General Ranger Identity Patch (+)

[Minigiant]

Flavour-wise, if you were going to redo the sub classes for Ranger, what would you do?

I think 4e had a good set up.

• Beastmaster
  • Combat Beast Pet focused
  • Can speak to animals at will
  • Can buff beast offense and defense*
  • Animal Handling Expertise
• Hunter
  • Ranged focus
  • Has a Sniper Shot*
  • Has a Volley*
  • Has a Pin Down*
  • Perception Expertise
• Marauder
  • Melee focused
  • Bonus HP or THP*
  • Can Whirlwind
  • Can Rapid Attack
  • Stealth Expertise
• Warden
  • Spell focused
  • Shilleagh user
  • Boosted Barkskin
  • Backup healer
  • Nature Expertise

Then you get the Fey, Underdark, Planar rangers who have heightened focused in skills.

*Could be a spell

 

[doctorbadwolf]

the winter walker, and presumably any other environs themed subclasses isn't directly designed to make you better in an arctic environment, it instead more took the angle of having learnt from it gave you features themed off of harnessing cold and ice, your weapon attacks deal additional cold damage, an expanded spell list of cold-themed spells, ect, ect...

in this way their themed abilities become more universally useful, a swamp ranger might excel in inflicting sickness or could have their own personal swarm to command like swarmkeeper (lots of insects in the swamp), a mountain ranger would be an expert climber and could know how to reshape stone with geokinesis and direct the winds how to blow.

it's like, yes, you could design a dragon slayer ranger to purely only have traits that activate against dragons OR you could have this ranger having learnt from their target, becoming more dragonlike in themselves, flight, to match them in their air, intimidation, you've stood strong against the king of reptiles and are considered as scary as they are, speaking draconic, learning the tongue of your enemies to understand what was previously eluded from your understanding.

I would love to see favored enemy mostly as single features you get 2 of at level 1 and then 1-2 more each tier, with the same mindset as the subclasses you propose.

To me, terrain is a better subclass. "I fight this way because i trained in the deep forest, with dryads and treants and shambling mounds and poisonous things." Works either way, too, i suppose. I just like winter walker more than i would dragon slayer, i think.

 

[Minigiant]

This is why spells work best for D&D rangers.

In most media, rangers really mostly fight their Favored enemies in their Favored terrain. Aragon mostly fights orcs in forests and grasslands. Jon Snow fights mostly fights men in the arctic. Jack fights Giants. Pirate ranger fights at sea and on coasts. Etc Etc.

But due to range of foes, you either need to make ranger talents super broad to hit tons if situations (Hordebreaker works on any group of foes) or swappable (swap out Entangle for Absorb elements vis dragons).

I just think designers would do swapable flavorful features better than broad flavorful features. History leans that way.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I think 4e had a good set up.

• Beastmaster
  • Combat Beast Pet focused
  • Can speak to animals at will
  • Can buff beast offense and defense*
  • Animal Handling Expertise
• Hunter
  • Ranged focus
  • Has a Sniper Shot*
  • Has a Volley*
  • Has a Pin Down*
  • Perception Expertise
• Marauder
  • Melee focused
  • Bonus HP or THP*
  • Can Whirlwind
  • Can Rapid Attack
  • Stealth Expertise
• Warden
  • Spell focused
  • Shilleagh user
  • Boosted Barkskin
  • Backup healer
  • Nature Expertise

Then you get the Fey, Underdark, Planar rangers who have heightened focused in skills.

*Could be a spell

What I would like to see is being able to do whatever build you want. So each of these could be played melee or ranged and the abilities can help you in a different way.

 

[Minigiant]

What I would like to see is being able to do whatever build you want. So each of these could be played melee or ranged and the abilities can help you in a different way.

Would love to see it but dont think its possible without making ranger super complicated....Outside of doing spells.


Now ironically, if you copying something like 4e AEDU system you might be able to do it.

At Will basic attack or cantrip
Encounter Martial abilty
Daily Attack spell
Utilty Skill spell, Defense spell, Skill trick

A beastmaster or fey wanderer can use their Daily and Encounter powers for summoning their companion and use At wills to make them attack.

Whereas Hunters, scouts, and marauders can pick weapon Encounter powers and choose Daily spells for Nova buffs.

I always thought AEDU fit ranger and paladin best as they with part weapons and part magic.

 

[Horwath]

I always thought AEDU fit ranger and paladin best as they with part weapons and part magic.

AEDU is a great idea, but needs ability to be more customizable.

1st of E, needs to be from really short rest, 1minute or 5min max.

you need to have a choice on how much you want to lean to A or E or D or U part of AEDU on your character.

and ranger needs ability to get rid of spell components if we are still determined that ranger needs spells at all.

 

[Minigiant]

AEDU is a great idea, but needs ability to be more customizable.

1st of E, needs to be from really short rest, 1minute or 5min max.

Its a bad idea to put ranger on its own schedule.

you need to have a choice on how much you want to lean to A or E or D or U part of AEDU on your character.

That would be dang near impossible to balance.

If we use Weapon Masteries, Maneuvers and Spells, maybe 1st level ranger could get

• 2 Weapon Masteries
• 2 Maneuvers
• "Favored Enemy" (but it runs on Superiority dice)
• Half Spellcasting

Then on level 2 rangers get

• Fighting style or 2 Cantrips
• 2 language
• 1 Expertise
• Abilty to convert a spell slot to recharge its level of dice.

So people deadset on casting no spells can burn all their slots for dice.

 

[Horwath]

Its a bad idea to put ranger on its own schedule.

OK, put everyone on 1min short rest. Done.

That would be dang near impossible to balance.

not with that attitude, hehe.

If we use Weapon Masteries, Maneuvers and Spells, maybe 1st level ranger could get

• 2 Weapon Masteries
• 2 Maneuvers
• "Favored Enemy" (but it runs on Superiority dice)
• Half Spellcasting

Then on level 2 rangers get

• Fighting style or 2 Cantrips
• 2 language
• 1 Expertise
• Abilty to convert a spell slot to recharge its level of dice.

So people deadset on casting no spells can burn all their slots for dice.

this is a good baseline
Masteries as at-will powers
maneuvers as encounter
spells as daily.
favored enemy as utility

as for burning spell slots, that is a good idea, maybe 2 or even 3 dice for spell level burned to recover.

hmm, now you have given me idea for trashing HM from ranger....

1st level.
you learn 2 maneuvers from BM list and have 4 dice(d6)
learn 1 maneuver and gain 2 extra dice at levels 5,9,13,17
upgrade dice size to d8 at 13th level, d10 at 17th level
at 20h level you can use d6 instead of spending maneuver dice once per turn.

 

[Minigiant]

• Beastmaster
  • Wisdom Based
  • Combat Beast Pet focused
  • Has Manevers
    • Commander's Strike
    • Distracting Strike
  • Can speak to animals at will
  • Animal Handling Expertise
• Hunter
  • Dexterity Based
  • Most Maneuvers
  • Has Manevers
    • Callous Slayer
    • Hordebreaker
    • Snipe
    • Volley Attack
  • Perception Expertise
• Marauder
  • Strength Based
  • Bonus THP
  • Has Manevers
    • Whirlwind Attack
    • Rapid Attack
  • Stealth Expertise
• Ranger Captain
  • Strength Based
  • Two handed or Versalite weapon user
  • Has Maneuvers
    • Commanding Pressence
    • Rally
  • Insight Expertise
• Scout
  • Dexterity Based
  • More Speed
  • Has Maneuvers
    • Ambush
    • Bait and Switch
  • Stealth Expertise
• Swarmkeeper
  • Wisdom Based
  • Swarm pet focus
  • Has Maneuvers
    • Commanders Strike
    • Enveloping Command
  • Animal Handling Expertise
• Warden
  • Spell focused
  • Shillelagh user
  • Boosted Barkskin
  • Has Manevers
    •  Vines
    • Heal
  • Nature Expertise

 

[CreamCloud0]

This is why spells work best for D&D rangers.

i've given my thoughts on this before: a ranger would have spells, but shouldn't be defined by them.

In most media, rangers really mostly fight their Favored enemies in their Favored terrain. Aragon mostly fights orcs in forests and grasslands. Jon Snow fights mostly fights men in the arctic. Jack fights Giants. Pirate ranger fights at sea and on coasts. Etc Etc.

But due to range of foes, you either need to make ranger talents super broad to hit tons if situations (Hordebreaker works on any group of foes) or swappable (swap out Entangle for Absorb elements vis dragons).

I just think designers would do swapable flavorful features better than broad flavorful features. History leans that way.

i'd rather go for broad applicability, the idea of a ranger, or most any skill based character really, swapping out their 'specialty' on a dime doesn't sit right with me, it's like, oh you spent the best part of your life until now surviving in the mountains studying how to kill giants, but after an afternoon of reading you're just as prepared to traverse the jungle and take down undead but have forgotten everything you knew about mountaineering and giant slaying.