D&D 5E (2024) Feedback wanted: Spend death save failures for additional hit dice

[DEFCON 1]

I would imagine how useful the ability is would be dependent on the type of DM they have and whether those DMs tend to attack downed PCs?

If you have a DM who usually doesn't attack downed PCs, then having those death saves available allows the PC to have a longer survival time lying unconscious and not getting hit (while waiting for healing to eventually come). Spending those death saves for additional hit points though just means they will keep getting attacked while on their feet, and if/when they do get knocked out, they now are going to die quicker because they have no 3 death saves cushion.

Now if the DM does tend to attack downed PCs, then dying quickly is happening regardless... so at that point remaining on your feet by spending the saves allows the PC to get the hell out of Dodge and retreat. But that won't tend to result in what it sounds like you're going for, which is a 'last stand' kind of situation.

To me, death saves are more valuable to survival then the additional hit points, so it's not a trade I would tend to make. That's why I have fellow party members... to take up the mantle while I lay knocked out.

 

[GMMichael]

I would imagine how useful the ability is would be dependent on the type of DM they have and whether those DMs tend to attack downed PCs?

DMs don't attack downed PCs; NPCs do.

 

[DEFCON 1]

DMs don't attack downed PCs; NPCs do.

I have an idea... rather than argue the semantics, why not argue the actual point?

 

[Brotton Goodfellow]

You’re on to something. I’d increase the risk and the reward though.

Permanently lose a death saving throw but immediately regain 1/2 of HP Max.

There’s not much use in just rolling a hit die if it means I go from 1HP to 3HP. I’m still in danger of getting knocked to zero and having to roll death saves, but now with one less chance of surviving. As a player I wouldn’t use it.

Making the loss of a death saving throw permanent means this will be used for those dramatic moments where characters need to stay up or all is lost.

 

[GMMichael]

I have an idea... rather than argue the semantics, why not argue the actual point?

Your point takes a PC's perspective. But PCs don't implement alternative rules; DMs do. So I'm not sure how your point applies to the OP.

What I do know, is that a DM should be playing NPCs faithfully, so some NPCs would attack downed PCs and some wouldn't.

 

[Mecheon]

You’re on to something. I’d increase the risk and the reward though.

Permanently lose a death saving throw but immediately regain 1/2 of HP Max.

There’s not much use in just rolling a hit die if it means I go from 1HP to 3HP. I’m still in danger of getting knocked to zero and having to roll death saves, but now with one less chance of surviving. As a player I wouldn’t use it.

Making the loss of a death saving throw permanent means this will be used for those dramatic moments where characters need to stay up or all is lost.

A permanent loss for a temporary thing is a terrible tactical decision. Permanently crippling your character for, not even full HP in one situation is either useless, or only ever going to be used at the end of a campaign where there'll be no lasting effect.

 

[GraveDev]

I like it, though it feels a bit static as is. As in; you can only spend 3 Hit Dice per long rest, and those don't scale very well. Lets say you have a level 1 Fighter with +1 CON. This bonus action allows them to heal for (d10 + 1) x 3 = 19.5 HP on average. At later levels, when that same Fighter has, let's say, +3 CON, they only heal for (d10 + 3) x 3 = 25.5 HP on average. The additional 6 HP is such an irrelevant amount at that stage of the game. At level 1, it is super strong, later, it'd likely be more worthwhile to just keep the death saves. I'd make it scale off proficiency to make it weaker early on, and viable later.

If the idea is for characters to be a bit more self-sustaining, here are a few quick and rough ideas for that:

• Bonus action: You can only use this bonus action once per long rest, healing for PROF x (Hit Die + CON) when you do.
  • Level 1 Fighter with +1 CON and +2 PROF heals for 2 x (d10 + 1) = 13 HP early. Higher level Fighter with +3 CON and +4 PROF heals for 4 x (d10 + 3) = 34 HP.
  • Straight buff to PCs. Makes for a more heroic game where heroes are more self-sustaining and can take more risks, but might make the game too easy. I at least like how it lessens the overreliance on a dedicated healer or a pack full of health potions. I often feel like you should not need either of those things to go adventuring, but that often is not the case in D&D5e as it stands.
  • One con is having to keep track of the "once per long rest" clause. That can be a hassle.
• Bonus action: You can gain +1 exhaustion to heal for (PROF / 2) x (Hit Die + CON).
  • A weaker version than the first one, but is less of a direct buff to PCs. You can take risks and heal yourself up afterwards, but having exhaustion can be a pain.
  • Easy to track. You can always see your exhaustion level on your sheet and make a decision from there.
• Bonus action: You heal for (PROF / 2) x (Hit Die + CON), but lose 1 death save until you long rest.
  • This version is tied to death saves, as per your original idea, but scales better. Might be too strong.

It's an interesting idea anyhow. I like making PCs more self-sustaining. It frees the DM from having health potions be abundant, and frees PCs from needing a healer. I like the risk involved with spending death saves, but I find it annoying to track the current version since it forces you to add a new set of pips to track separately. I'd maybe adjust your current version so that the death save is just spent until you long rest. Much easier to track on the sheet.

 

[Horwath]

Great at 1st level, probably suicidal at 10th

I would rather have HDs not reliant on Short rests at all.

When you take Dodge action you can spend one of your HDs.
at 5th level you can spend up to 2 HDs
at 11th level you can spend up to 3 HDs
at 17th level you can spend up to 4 HDs

 

[DEFCON 1]

Your point takes a PC's perspective. But PCs don't implement alternative rules; DMs do. So I'm not sure how your point applies to the OP.

What I do know, is that a DM should be playing NPCs faithfully, so some NPCs would attack downed PCs and some wouldn't.

It takes a play perspective, which applies to both the DM and the players.

If the DM has an alternate rule they are wondering about, the players are going to be the ones who will be engaging with it. So my post was to give a potential player perspective of how that rule would be engaged with. The OP can take that perspective or not when they ultimately decide to install that rule into their system.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Pro: it gives players who don't like death saves a way to avoid them.

Con: it adds value to something that shouldn't be in the game in the first place.

I pressume you dislike the fact you do nothing while you make death saves? I have my own fix for it, if you're interested.